Wrong side driving social media stunt

eazybee

And just to add they were both, with other members of their families were given much support from Behaviour Support, Special needs support, working with Romany families Support, Social workers et al.

Eazybee, I’m not looking to disagree with you. I’ll google but so far haven’t seen media reports that these young men and their families were given the kind of support you set out. I’ve seen hints of some of the families having Irish traveller heritage. My understanding is that Romany culture differs significantly from that of the Irish traveller culture.
My town has a settled site, as do many others. Many families of Irish traveller heritage are settled in council housing, often in areas that in earlier days were stopping off places for Irish travellers who did farm work, sharpened knives n scissors and sold wooden pegs. As travelling became increasingly difficult many were given council housing. They travel using caravans between June and September.
I stress, in no way am I excusing the behaviour of these five. I e just read that their families are blaming the police, saying the police should have abandoned the chase. Lost for words I could print here

3 of the Irish boys were said to be from the traveller community, I've seen nothing to confirm the English young men were.

I really don't understand the relevance of travellers to the thread.

Magenta8

I find it quite disturbing that some GNs take the "Good riddance, I shan't be shedding any tears" attitude to the deaths of these young men.

We seem to be a warm hearted, sympathetic and supportive lot most of the time but it also seems that a hard nosed and callous element creeps in at times.

I have never, and will never be warmhearted , sympathetic and supportive towards feckless murderers and organised criminal gangs.

I agree with you Magenta.
What they did was horrific, no doubt, careless disregard for their and others lives, something so so wrong we are left angry: but I can never celebrate so many deaths and so much pain and damage to families.

They’re violent and criminal low lives who have no regard whatsoever for the rest of society so are no loss.

...but I can never celebrate so many deaths and so much pain and damage to families.

It's not a question of celebrating, but please don't expect people to mourn their deaths.
Whatever happened to them was of their own doing. There is no-one else to blame.

The tragedy is their idiotic behaviour has also killed two fine citizens: both serving Police officers, one a former teacher and one a former soldier.

Wyllow3

I agree with you Magenta.
What they did was horrific, no doubt, careless disregard for their and others lives, something so so wrong we are left angry: but I can never celebrate so many deaths and so much pain and damage to families.

It's the families that are openly calling for very public celebrations of the lives of these thugs that is one reason sympathy for the families is so sparse.

Another is the growing public claims by family and friends that the police were responsible for the deaths.

I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of anyone and l don't think this purposely emotive phrase is warranted

Wyllow3

I agree with you Magenta.
What they did was horrific, no doubt, careless disregard for their and others lives, something so so wrong we are left angry: but I can never celebrate so many deaths and so much pain and damage to families.

I don't think anyone on here is 'celebrating' their deaths - but their families and friends are the ones openly celebrating the deaths of the two police officers, so I make no apologies for the fact that I won't be sparing a thought for them.

I am also sparing a thought for the community who will have lived in misery alongside these young men.

The Cleveland horrific crash has stunned many up here in the north east. No one can ever comprehend this awful incident and outcome. The police do a great job and my thoughts are with the families of the two police officers who never returned home. To give your life up for any profession is beyond comprehension.

I think the best thing the families of the young men could do is to hold quiet unobtrusive funerals, but no doubt they won't, thus far much of the aftermath seems to be a defiant showing off. Bearing in mind I believe some of the deceased are catholic, or possibly from other Christian denominations they might focus on the "Thou Shall Not Kill" which still stands.I know much of these services are merely a lip service, often highly over the top as if they're celebrating the lives of heroes. I'd like to think there would be some brave priests who during their address to the congregation could ask them to reflect on the recklessness that has taken the lives of others.

Terribull - I've only read a report of one funeral mass in Ireland, Jeremy O’Brien's, the priest certainly raised that the boys had done wrong and all victims were mentioned with sorrow.

Glad he did, entirely appropriate. Thanks for the info Old Frill

As it should be!

No, I don't - can't forgive nor forget those who celebrated taking those police lives ViceVersa

I read one of the mothers of the young men killed on Ireland giving heartfelt condolences to the innocent victims

Magenta8

I find it quite disturbing that some GNs take the "Good riddance, I shan't be shedding any tears" attitude to the deaths of these young men.

We seem to be a warm hearted, sympathetic and supportive lot most of the time but it also seems that a hard nosed and callous element creeps in at times.

Well said!

petra

TerryBull
You ask how did these burgeoning Kamikaze get away with it.
One word: cuts,
The police.
Social workers.
Youth centres.
Youth workers.
Plus the experience of many ex gang members who wanted to help and educate these kids but weren’t given money to rent premises.
Thank you George Osborne and all who came after him for the next 14 years. 🤬

Totally agree. It's pointless saying "lock them up and throw away the key" when prisons are full to bursting, police are understaffed and the probation service has been privatised.

Traveler children dont have a chance, they are raised in closed camps where thieving, fighting, domestic abuse and lawlessness is normal so they follow the example.

Closed camps where nobody knows anything and hasn't seen anything, police are the enemy and dont enter unless they have a riot squad on standby. They attract other criminals that use them as cover for many criminal activity's.

Until closed camps are banned nothing is going to change

David49

Traveler children dont have a chance, they are raised in closed camps where thieving, fighting, domestic abuse and lawlessness is normal so they follow the example.

Closed camps where nobody knows anything and hasn't seen anything, police are the enemy and dont enter unless they have a riot squad on standby. They attract other criminals that use them as cover for many criminal activity's.

Until closed camps are banned nothing is going to change

There are no confirmed reports any of the young men in the English incident were from the travelling community. 3 in the Irish incident were confirmed from the travelling community.

Whilst l take your point, it's not right that it's assumed these incidents relate to the travelling community when they don't.

We don't know but seventeen of their associates have now been arrested on suspicion of firearms, drugs and other offences including organised crime.

Latest. Murder probe after two found dead in a house in Middlesbrough.

Thank you OldFrill this point was made previously, but people aren’t listening - or reading.

David, your point about ‘closed camps’ could be seen as suggesting the powers that be enforce closed camps which suspect you didn’t intend.
The local authority run traveller sites are in many ways very positive, children attend local schools who accommodate absences for travelling, usually June to September. It’s usually women, mums aunties, grans, big sisters who escort the children to school. I’ve never heard of children from the sites not being escorted to and from school.
‘Officials’ don’t find a relaxing welcoming committee. My own experience has been it’s not easy to establish trust but once it’s been, often reluctantly, established things go well. I accept, I wasn’t going in as a police officer, but I never felt the need to ask police to accompany me - not always the caseb

I suppose anything "closed" isn't good. Be it a camp, a religion, a toxic relationship.

Unfortunately there aren't the rescources to help any more.

The la official traveller sites aren’t closed in any official way, strangers, teachers, health visitors, social workers and police can walk in to the sites. Police are I expect universally unwelcome, Others will be approached by men and dogs, can feel intimidating, but once accepted will usually be treated politely, even friendly
The closed idea is the community’s need to keep unwanted, prospective trouble makers or snoops out