History repeating itself

Cossy

Lemonjam 11:32

It’s a really interesting question and you may get many different answers.

For me, I genuinely feel, that whatever government is in “power”, sometimes us normal folk become frustrated in many ways, for many reasons.

I have concerns, they are around many issues;

1) I honestly think sometimes the expectations of our governments are quite unreasonable and “un-doable” in the timescales people demand.

2) I have concerns about how “we” (as in the UK) will actually fill the gaps missing in our public services, hospital staff at all levels, GPs, Police, Teachers, then the “gaps” we might have in Science and AI.

3) How to resolve our housing crisis, particular social housing.

4) How to “motivate” the vast numbers of 18-25 year old young people to address their medical and mental health issues and to take great strides towards paid work.

5) likewise breaking the cycle of generational welfare claimants.

6) Linked to 4) & 5) how to fill the huge void of community mental health care.

7) Cost of living and particularly food production.

8) Resolving, justly and fairly and finally our asylum seeker and migration issues. Whilst acknowledging, we do have an issue, but not attempting to apportion blame on these groups where it doesn’t exist.

9) Safety of ALL women and children. Including gay women, and where applicable Trans women. Safety of these people which isn’t detrimental to other women and children.

9) Complete revamp of our prison and justice system.

I completely acknowledge and accept that these are my concerns, which may not mirror other people’s.

If I had something further to add, it would simply be in order for our MPs, government, Cabinet to acknowledge and note, and where possible action, voters concerns there needs to be some “meetings of minds” and understanding on both sides.

We, (well most us), do have pretty easy access to our local MPs and local councillors.

If we have an issue we need answers to, we really need to lobby or arrange a visit to speak to those in power who might be able help us.

Cossy- I agree many people feel frustrated, for many reasons whatever governments are in power- twas ever thus. You have a list of concerns to be addressed as do I - the list and priorities may differ for various posters but there is a suggestion there is one overriding priority for voters supporting right wing populists parties?

On the UK, since ending of WW2 and all tempts and subsequent international legislation to prevent another WW and maintain peace- there has predominantly been a pendulum swing (with a few exceptions) between Conservative Party government and Labour Party.

So I wonder why now the reasons for that status quo shift towards populist right wing populist parties specifically? E.g. one poster asked “ Yes but why has this situation arisen? Why, in a democratic country have people voted in this way? (AfD) Harping back to the 1930s doesn't cover it. What's the problem right now?

That draws a response “We know what the problem is right across Europe, it’s over migration both legal and illegal. Governments have allowed it and then not solved the problem of it continuing to happen”

There is a perception therefore that migration absolutely is the sole concern and the sole reason for the insurgence of Reform UK post Brexit. The Conservative Party managed legal migration for 13 plus years, then voted out and now the Labour Party manages the issuance of visas for legal migration. Small boat asylum seekers have only begun since Brexit. There appears to be a perception that Governments since small boat arrivals began have allowed these small boat arrivals. Not clear how you can disallow small boat crossings legally however.

The LP has more or less halved small boat crossing numbers over the last year, a success never achieved before and addressed asylum seeker applications back log it inherited. No small feat and little acknowledgement of this achievement. Voters veering towards Reform UK seemingly is impatient for quicker, faster, reduction they perceive populist far right parties will deliver?

There also appears to be a perception that the Conservative government and now the Labour government has not responded to the concerns of voters and thus voters have moved to the right:

“There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works”.

Well Voters I’m sure have many and mixed priorities of concerns. Your list in your post may not match other poster's list for example- no one size fits all. But the governments must work on ensuring that they demonstrate they are responding to voter’s worries- ie good comms. I hope AB takes that on board and addresses.

Dickens What safety measures did the Right put in place to protect us all?

How did they address the migrants and small boats, which did start to arrive whilst they were still in power?

They had 14 years to help support and protective British Citizens?

Why, specifically, do the “left” have to “get their act together”?

Aveline

Yet our government will not allow police statistics of rapes and assaults by migrants to be released.

Best stick with true facts, Aveline. Lies help nobody.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statistics-on-foreign-national-offenders-and-the-immigration-system/statistics-on-foreign-national-offenders-and-the-immigration-system

"there were 6,000 Foreign National Offender returns in the YE June 2026, an increase of 12% compared to the previous year"

Cossy

Rosie51

Goodness Cossy are you really blaming Ukraine for their situation? Should they just let Russia walk in and take increasing parts of their country?

I think you’ve either accidentally or quite deliberately misinterpreted my post.

Of course I don’t blame Ukraine, I blame the Russian government, and the continued interference from Trump and co.

I also don’t blame the ordinary folk in Iran, Gaza or Afghanistan, I blame their corrupt leaders.

I thought I’d made that crystal clear, apologies, as it was clearly open to interpretation.

Sorry Cossy it was an accidental misinterpretation.
I very much doubt this will ever happen, especially as some governments involved are the cause of the issues, Gaza, Ukraine, Iran and Afghanistan. I've read 'governments' and attributed it as applying to the governments of all those countries. I apologise, it did seem way out of character! I'm sure nobody blames the ordinary people of any of those countries.
^

Thanks butter jam- when you think of it the LP has done quite well over the past year to reduce small boat crossings by half and increase FNO deportations by 12%. I wonder what these successes are not registering with some voters?

LemonJam

Thanks butter jam- when you think of it the LP has done quite well over the past year to reduce small boat crossings by half and increase FNO deportations by 12%. I wonder what these successes are not registering with some voters?

Well if those facts and stats were blazoned in thick black print headlines in certain tabloids, they would register. But they aren't are they, so they don't!

Yes, to reduce the crossings in such a short space of time is quite amazing.

Can they not process asylum seekers much more speedily ? If people knew they would be processed within 6 weeks and either accepted or deported straight away after the decision was made , there would be no need for demos. With unemployment quite high amongst various graduates who, presumably, are quite intelligent,why not recruit some as assessors (after being trained for the job) ? Too hard, I suppose,if you have never worked anywhere except as a politician in an unreal environment.

That is the aim, but in truth for some unknown reason the last Tory government simply didn’t put any resources into the issue and allowed it to build up to a huge problem, where they even resorted to renting a barge at huge expense.

It was the stuff of lunacy. The backlog is being cleared and once that is done then it should all become much more manageable.

nanna8

I’d be happy if children were taught how great the British Empire was because it was great. So was the Roman Empire, so was the Austrian Hungarian Empire, so was the Turkish Ottoman Empire. I think it is very bad to deny the past. Not everything is black and white. There are a lot of traitors around now.

Its extremely important that new generations learn how past Empires colonised, subdued and exploited huge areas of the world, what they were trying to do; what they succeeded at, and why and how every Empire failed.

Britain's classic example must be included.

Otherwise, how can younger generations make sense of the terrible aftermath of racism, political division, subjugation, revolt and wars. Or learn from it.

Our Grandchildren are going to watch USA 's global agenda fail ; then they're going to face China pursuing their own, far more effectively.

Whitewavemark2

That is the aim, but in truth for some unknown reason the last Tory government simply didn’t put any resources into the issue and allowed it to build up to a huge problem, where they even resorted to renting a barge at huge expense.

It was the stuff of lunacy. The backlog is being cleared and once that is done then it should all become much more manageable.

I believe I read there is quite a large turnover of staff employed to do the processing. From what I can gather it's quite a stressful job and, if you are a trainee, suddenly pitchforked into an environment which must be pretty 'intense' and pressured, it's hardly surprising if it takes a toll.

This could've been prevented maybe if recruitment had kept pace with requirement.

I believe Labour will succeed in
managing asylum seekers given time.
Who will be blamed then for all the problems.
They have been a handy scapegoat for too long.

nanna8

Can they not process asylum seekers much more speedily ? If people knew they would be processed within 6 weeks and either accepted or deported straight away after the decision was made , there would be no need for demos. With unemployment quite high amongst various graduates who, presumably, are quite intelligent,why not recruit some as assessors (after being trained for the job) ? Too hard, I suppose,if you have never worked anywhere except as a politician in an unreal environment.

Lots of our current MPs have had “real” jobs.

I’m not entirely sure why there were such huge backlogs in the first instance, however Covid meant many many govt departments were temporarily moved to those who needed far more resource.

Employing temporary staff within civil service departments brings with it issues, not just on the recruitment and training, but on security clearance. I believe the home office is the department responsible for processing claims for asylum seekers.

The Home Office, The Foreign Office and The Treasury are the three departments with the highest (longest) levels of security clearances.

The Labour government have made huge inroads to playing “catch up” with the back log.

It’s not just that, those who “fail” the process do have the right of appeal and all these appeals have to be heard.

AGAA4

I believe Labour will succeed in
managing asylum seekers given time.
Who will be blamed then for all the problems.
They have been a handy scapegoat for too long.

🙏 we can but hope.

I’m pretty sure there’s a long list of minority groups just waiting to be “scapegoated” ☹️☹️

Lots of lawyers doing very well out of asylum claims and appeals too.

Aveline

Lots of lawyers doing very well out of asylum claims and appeals too.

They are need. But this, as Human Rights Lawyers, is their job.

Any improperly addressed issues or any improprieties committed by the lawyers should be properly addressed, but aren’t really part of the issue.

Sorry That should read, they are indeed!

...but in truth for some unknown reason the last Tory government simply didn’t put any resources into the issue...

There is your answer, nanna8 MONEY.

And, of course, a refusal by Johnson of the French offer to allow the UK processing facilities at Calais. We couldn't accept any help from the bl**dy EU, could we...

www.thesun.co.uk/news/16901902/emmanuel-macron-asylum-seeker-processing-centre/

But money really is the key, even though others discount it. I can't help feeling that the tory austerity since 2010 and its determination to cut back on, or eliminate, state services has left so many people poorer and unable to access public services in a timely fashion, or even at all, is at the root of the problem.

If people didn't feel so hopeless and uncared for by governments they wouldn't be so open to populists pointing the finger at immigrants and saying 'It's all their fault.

But why do they want to align with Putin and Russia? Thea’s the strangest thing. I thought they were glad when the Berlin Wall came down. Now they want to go back?

I’m pretty sure there’s a long list of minority groups just waiting to be “scapegoated”

A whole box of them - what appears to happen is that an isolated - but shocking - 'event' brings one of these groups to the forefront of the public's attention, followed by a clamour for an investigation into its status... and before you know it - a new scapegoat has emerged. Or an old one resurrected.

Cossy

TerriBull

I've just been listening to an interview with Libby Purves on Times Radio, I didn't catch it all because I was driving back from the shops. What she did say, as I recall it, is that there are a lot of bogus asylum claims, insomuch as many applicants are being groomed to read from a script. False claims are being made about sexual orientation, gay and bi. Straight men being urged to go to gay clubs and nightclubs and filming themselves there as supporting evidence. Similar claims as to posing as Christian converts in churches. Allegedly this deception is wide spread. She went on to say, that it's also reported that those that do have their applications turned down are rarely deported.

She did further go on to say, apropos of the recent demonstrations down in Dover she's 100% against masked up men marching in balaclavas and if she had her way she would have face coverings banned.

This is the info gained via AI covering that last 12 months:-

In the 12 months leading up to June 2026, 116,000 individuals received initial decisions on their asylum claims in the UK.
(https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2026/summary-of-latest-statistics)

The Home Office Immigration Statistics and reports from the BBC break down the results of these processed applications as follows:

Total Decisions Processed: 116,000 individual initial decisions.

Claims Granted: 38% (roughly 44,000 people) were granted refugee status or another form of humanitarian protection.

Claims Refused: 62% (roughly 72,000 people) were refused protection

This high rate of decision-making has significantly cleared the backlog, dropping the number of people awaiting an initial decision to approximately 40,000—a 56% decrease compared to the previous year.

The figure 116,000 is not the amount of people arriving in year to June 2026, but includes many arriving prior to June 2025, due to huge backlogs in processing.

In that same period, only 12,000 of the 72,000 “initially refused” have actually been deported, an assumption is made that the remaining 60,000 are awaiting the results of appeals.

Perhaps the appeal process needs serious reviewing and tightening?

This process in the UK is pretty similar to those used in other European countries.

The appeal process does need a serious review.

If the applicant's asylum claim is denied they can appeal, then appeal to the supreme court and the if all else fails, the can appeal to the ECHR.

All of this will probably take years and by that time they have probably had a family and allowed to stay anyway.

Nick Thomas-Symonds, a senior labour polician who was previously the shadow home secretary, spoke to Nick Ferrari this morning on LBC. He said that asylum seekers from specific nations—such as Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, and Sudan—face virtually no chance of being deported and will effectively be allowed to remain. He also said that they know that if they make it to the UK there is very little, if any chance of being sent back. No wonder so many continue to come and there are so few deportations.

Dickens

^I’m pretty sure there’s a long list of minority groups just waiting to be “scapegoated”^

A whole box of them - what appears to happen is that an isolated - but shocking - 'event' brings one of these groups to the forefront of the public's attention, followed by a clamour for an investigation into its status... and before you know it - a new scapegoat has emerged. Or an old one resurrected.

Indeed. I agree.

Blame doesn't go where it should. The rich and powerful make sure of that.
It's never their fault it's always that group over there who are incapable of defending themselves.

nanna8

Can they not process asylum seekers much more speedily ? If people knew they would be processed within 6 weeks and either accepted or deported straight away after the decision was made , there would be no need for demos. With unemployment quite high amongst various graduates who, presumably, are quite intelligent,why not recruit some as assessors (after being trained for the job) ? Too hard, I suppose,if you have never worked anywhere except as a politician in an unreal environment.

I compared Australian asylum seeker process and other countries to UK. All are very similar in process, as you would expect as all need to comply with international AS law. Biometrics, in depth interviews etc plus right to legal representation where appropriate.

The UK Labour government as it came to office 2 years ago, invested heavily in processing application. As a result in the past 2 years the LP government has not only addressed a huge back log in claims it inherited *224,742 from the Conservative Party but also has reduced initial AS decisions for applications to 6 months or less* Another huge achievement that you don’t find trumpeted in our largely right wing main stream media! The best timeframe the Conservative Party achieved in mid 2023 was 82 weeks- to reduce that to around 24- 25 weeks is a vast improvement.

Only a small number particularly complex cases now take longer than 12 months- which is the same in all countries and they quote average time. . The UK processing timescale also compares favourably to other countries e.g. it takes 8.7 to 12.2 months on average in Germany, 15 months in the Netherlands, 24 months in Canada- Australia below according to A1.

AI Overview

Initial Department Decisions

Timeframe: Often takes 1 to 3 years (over 900 to 1,000 days on average) for the Department of Home Affairs to review and finalise a permanent protection visa application.
Delays: Factors like case complexity, verification needs, and security or health checks can extend these waits.

All first world countries also have a review and appeals process as directed by law- here is Australia’s:

Reviews and Appeals
Tribunal Review If the Department refuses a visa, cases can go to the Administrative Review Tribunal (which replaced the old AAT).
Appeal Duration Half of all refugee reviews are finalised within 2 years and 2 months, while 95% take up to 5 years and 1 month from the original lodgement date.


I cant find any country in the world that can process as claim, complete legal review and appeals process of those disallowed and deport within 6 weeks. Not even US, Trump and belligerent ICE can achieve that. Neither do I think will Reform UK.

^ asylum seekers from specific nations—such as Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, and Sudan^

Jeez, If you'd escaped from any of those nations would you care to be sent back to them?

AGAA4

The AFD want remigration. That means getting rid of people who they feel don't belong. Sounds familiar.

For now they only have 39 seats and need 42 for a majority.

A 93 year old Jewish survivor of the Holocaust says she is terrified of the AFD.

Yes, it sounds familiar, but there are plenty of other countries with political parties that are tarred with the same brush.

I have never lived in Germany, but have travelled there a good deal, and currently live practically on the Danish-German border.

My experience is that Germans today are largely capable of evaluting the Nazi period as what it was - a horrific dictatorship. This of course does not prevent a new dictatorship arising there or anywhere else, but surely goes some way to preventing it.

Try, please, to remember people such as Stalin, Franco, Salizar and Mussolini - all of whom were contemporaries of Hitler, and all of whom caused endless suffering to millions through their wrong-headed politics.

As far as I know, calling anyone a Nazi in most countries in Europe could lead to you being prosecuted for slander, unless you can prove that the person has actually been spreading Nazi propoganda or actively took part in any Nazi organisation during the time that Hitler was in power. There are obviously few people alive today who could have done so.

Jews everywhere are rightly concerned by the increase in open anti-Semitic opinions and terror practised against them. Likewise many Muslims in Europe feel they too are in the firing-line for those with extreme right wing sympathies.

To me it is fairly obvious that in every and any country we need to take a close, critical look at what is going on politically and at the level of common attitudes at home, before we criticise our neighbours too frankly.

Oh, and while we are on the subject - there were demonstrations in Hamburg today against AdF.