Full marks Government

GrannyGravy I agree there is terrible suffering in the world. But perhaps the onus is on Israel because it is a first world democratic country with close ties to the US in particular, and previously close ties with other western governments.
One could also ask why barbaric killing of countless innocents is happening in other parts of the world but we hear little of it yet we had wall to wall coverage of what Hamas did to innocent Jewish civilians.
I believe the answer is the same.

No it hasn't GG13. The charities I support are involved in helping victims in those tragedies you mention.

Because Palestine has shown people Isreal can act with impunity. International law doesent count. Never again means never again for all people. Isreal are comiting a live stream genocide. War crimes and crimes against humanity.
Ever since the 1948 Nakba when Isreal killed and displaced hundreds of thousands from their homes it is still continuing to thud day and beyond.

Isreal has bombed other countries Syria and Lebanon causing havoc blowing up mountains.

They need to be stopped.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

What I really completely and utterly fail to comprehend is the lack of caring of the plight of so many innocents, whatever their leaders have done at certain points historically, and fail to ask it it actually necessary in anyway to get even remotely close to what was done to Jewish people.

Like starvation, like medical help, like no adequate sanitation, like withdrawal of medical help, like forcing people into ghettos in Gaza and in the West Bank murder of ordinary farmers and their families.

The plight and suffering undeniably doculmented of so very many Palestinians -

where is the slightest suggestion of humanitarian caring is what I want to know, some of you above who frankly seem to fancy there is some sort of virtue in extreme hardline treatment of others

Yes, there are long discussions to be had on "means and ends" politically and philosophically

"in theory"

Frankly to me the end is not justified, since the historical and theological claims to those lands not clear at at all, they are very contested: its clear that either side claiming "from the River to the Sea" is on shaky ground.

So consider the children brought into the world who will only know fear and suffering.

Decent folk over the world asked for no less for the many Jewish peoples in the 30's and on into WW2: is it so surprising the question is not turned around? I could give you a lot more of the history starting with the Balfour Declaration in 2017 of contested lands and theologies and Empire,

*but for now please don't write off the suffering as in consequential*

Why are the Palestinians more important than those being killed in Burma, Sudan, Syria and many other places around the world?

That is the one thing I cannot understand.

We all bleed, we all suffer loss, there are multiple wars ongoing as we speak/post, but the focus has always been on this situation…

They are not, but we are currently discussing Israel/Palestine. I'm willing to join in any thread that seeks to address the matter in terms of across the globe, or indeed any particular country/issue.

Two Isreal's have made a film about Gaza it recieved a 25 minute long ovation at a Venice film showing.

It was filmed on the rooftops of Tel Aviv interviewing solders officers who were in in disguise with there voice altered so as not to be recognised.

The film is called Naza it means how many civilians are killed in a targeted explosion. The soldiers said they targeted whole villages 500 died at a time. Also saying it is a hauocaust.

Trump met The Irish President Catherine Connolly. She told him wars and genocide is not the way forward towards peace. She said of the Irish famine and Gaza withholding food. etc.

Good news though Ed Miliband about sanctions on settlers is, how can there be a two state solution.

Johnathan Cook journalist explains the situation.

One final, horrifying subtext to Miliband’s speech announcing a trade ban on the settlements should not go unremarked.

In desperately trying to keep alive the West’s two-state solution, Burnham’s government is not just ignoring reality: the fact that there is no partner in Israel – electable or otherwise – to implement such a vision.

Burnham and Miliband are also insisting, in the entirely improbable event that a Palestinian state can be extracted from Israel, that the Palestinian people should be required to make peace with an unrepentant, heavily militarised, racist state that has recently committed genocide in Gaza.

None of the 11 states that joined the UK this week in sanctioning the settlements can apparently imagine Palestinians ever living in anything more than a small, demilitarised, economically dependent pseudo-state, with no real choice over its leaders, or control over its borders and economy.

Similarly, there is no suggestion that a neighbouring, territorially reduced Israeli state would need to be reformed ideologically, or made to engage in any kind of truth and reconciliation process, or face sanctions until it sees the error of its genocidal ways.

The Jewish supremacist ideology of Zionism, the dehumanising logic of the Israeli settler-colonial mindset, and the religious fundamentalism of large swaths of the Israeli population - all critical to the rationalisation of the Gaza genocide - would remain unchallenged.

On this view, it seems, long-established impulses towards apartheid and genocide would simply evaporate, even as the West continues to indulge Israel’s every whim.

This isn’t a recipe for peace, even of the flawed kind. It is a demand that the Palestinian lamb continue to dwell with the Israeli wolf.

The truth that Burnham’s government refuses to face, as with every government before it, is that peace won’t magically arrive with Palestinian statehood. A Palestinian state – or, more likely, a single state embracing Palestinians and Israeli Jews – can emerge only when Israel has been dismantled as a heavily armed settler-colonial state, as happened with apartheid South Africa.

Israeli society will need to be re-educated through a painful truth and reconciliation process, as also happened in apartheid South Africa. Israelis will have to be made to confront the facts about a century of atrocities committed against the native Palestinian people.

Britain is not contemplating doing any of this – because the threads from unravelling the crimes of Israel and the Zionist movement would lead straight to the door of 10 Downing Street and other western powers.

This is an extract from my latest article. Read more here: www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/milibands-settlement-trade-ban-cosmetic-work-must-sanction-israel

Very interesting post Sam

There is much truth and depth to your post Samwam.

Indeed: And that what is in many L Party hearts and minds. It's fine to give an analysis like that: but where does the journalist suggest realistic ways forward, not just point out how hard it is? Yes, that analysis is needed, however it offers little hope, and hope depends on practical and international plans.

An SA type peace and reconciliation the ideal. But politics is the art of what can be done at any stage towards a desired end.

Movements are building within Israel itsself, slow, maybe scared people, but nevertheless less more and more are saying "too far" and working with Palestinians who live in Israel. Which is brave in the current climate. but how many more young men and women have to commit suicide in the IDF before their loved ones stand up and cry out? It will happen.

Milliband made this quite clear in his webinar to LP members that he only moved on the West Bank sanctions issue by and through the 11 countries who eventually joined him in the sanctions.

This grouping has not melted away, they are a vehicle moving forward.
How far they can move forward at any given time, is partly dependant on taking as many people of Jewish origin with him.

Winning hearts and minds there, is neither easy, nor speedy, with the threat of anti-semitism all the time.

But please remember, we need to take Jewish people in the UK and other European countries not just the UK.

I don't have the exact knowledge to lay out a possible step by step approach - what measure to take next, how to move forward with support form enough Jewish communities (which of course differ widely, like any other cultural or faith group)

And the wild card of what the US will or will not do: who can tell. and peace activists quietly working away from every background and faith together not apart.

but I would counsel hearing those who work with hope, not maybe seeming to say, "its all hopeless". Too many factors at work to know what might be.

Remember that Nelson Mandela was put in prison becuase he was an advocate of armed rebellion, the armed wing of the ANC. Yet eventually, when the time was right, he counselled reconciliation. a blood bath was averted by his actions, Bishop Tutu, and those who saw a way through despite enormous armed resources - ie the potential of countries like Zimbabwe to join armed insurrection.

(It has not sorted everything out in SA, there are those wanting to take over White Farms and distribute resources to those who will not necessarily have the knowledge or means to make that land pay, needful for the whole economy moving forward. such is reality).

👍

Yes there are many people striving for peace.
There is hope.

Fresh Vegetable relief project for Gaza

Chuffed.org

Nice one Samwam, thank you.

This really spoke to me, brave man.

www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1510202254472452&set=a.539633008196053

Yes indeed so brave.