BBC have reported the following about Reform!

Milliedog we absolutely do not have a “hard left” nor have we ever had a far-left.

However, I must admit across the years I’ve often thought some LP MPs are complete hypocrites. Don’t preach one thing, then do another with your own family!

Think there’s been great MPs across the years from all our political parties, left, right and centre. There’s also been some shockingly awful ones too, again across the entire political spectrum.

However, other than Oswald Moseley, I’ve never once come across the likes of all the MPs in both Reform and Restore.

It is done in exactly the same way for all the parties. Mud sticks if there is a reason. If a donation is above board, it won’t stick. Both the people you refer to are British citizens, and the donations were declared.

We have to let this investigation take its course, as they all do. It’s pointless whinging about unfairness, if somebody is guilty of breaking the rules, or the law, they have to face the punishment.

SaxonGrace

I’m more than happy for donations to be investigated, however let’s do it to all parties, Dale Vince’s millions to the Labour Party for one, Lord Ali paying for clothes for Starmer and wife, there are numerous instances that need investigating.

It’s not the donations themselves that are the issue, it’s their source, where the donor lives and with the Farage £5m the fact that he didn’t follow parliamentary policy.

It’s not rocket science;

1) In the 12 months prior to being sworn in as a British MP, all and any donations need to declared. Farage chose not to declare.

2) Rules about donations from donors living outside the UK are also pretty cut and dried.

Why keep trying to condone rule and lawbreaking actions?

Totally with you Peaseblossom and Milliedog
None of the parties is above corruption. The BBC won't leave Farage alone now. If he gets into power they will be singing to his tune the same way they are singing the tune of the looney left now.
And it seems any 'right' is 'hard right' or Fascist. Any disagreement with the current left-wing narrative is at best stupid, at worst morally reprehensible. Men wanting to defend our streets to keep their wives and daughters safe are 'thugs'. There is no proper discussion any more and effectively we have censorship, because if you say the wrong thing (or should I say the 'right' thing!) you can lose your job. Most of the Labour cabinet are members of the Fabian Society - George Orwell was also a member and he wrote 1984 inspired by their intentions. I never, never thought I would see this country get to this state, and it's frightening. What's coming will be worse unless people start to wake up.

undines

Totally with you Peaseblossom and Milliedog
None of the parties is above corruption. The BBC won't leave Farage alone now. If he gets into power they will be singing to his tune the same way they are singing the tune of the looney left now.
And it seems any 'right' is 'hard right' or Fascist. Any disagreement with the current left-wing narrative is at best stupid, at worst morally reprehensible. Men wanting to defend our streets to keep their wives and daughters safe are 'thugs'. There is no proper discussion any more and effectively we have censorship, because if you say the wrong thing (or should I say the 'right' thing!) you can lose your job. Most of the Labour cabinet are members of the Fabian Society - George Orwell was also a member and he wrote 1984 inspired by their intentions. I never, never thought I would see this country get to this state, and it's frightening. What's coming will be worse unless people start to wake up.

That’s completely untrue.

I’ve never referred to the Conservative Party as “far right”, nor, to my knowledge, has anyone else in here done so either

Men who truly believe than becoming vigilantes and marching in our streets in “groups”, some may call these mobs, are not protecting their wives and daughters, they are intimidating other people and, at worst, inciting violence and breaking the law.

Oh the irony of some of these people, whom themselves have been prosecuted for violences offences, in some instances Domestic Abuse.

We do have free speech, online, at work and in the street, so long as it’s within the law or within a company or organisations “code of conduct”.

Why defend the indefensible?

As for the BBC singing “the tune of the loony left”, you put this ridiculous statement, then talk about “discussion”.

I’ve had plenty of sensible, amicable discussions and debates on the N&P thread with those who have opposing political views to me.

Your post says far more about you, than it does the “loony left”.

Btw, no one here has claimed any political party is above “corruption”, but perhaps you’d like to illustrate this “corruption” from a party other than Reform, across the last 20 years?

DrWatson

For Pease -- "what about others"?? BoJo got repeatedly castigated for his misdemeanours, and they got BOOTED OUT.

Starmer appointed an imbecile as a Chancellor, and utterly failed with his promise about eradicating small boats, where's HE now?? Try and keep up??

As for Reform, if you support a blatantly racist 'party' (which is formed as a private company - guess who gets the benefits??) then cast a thought to what will happen if they manage to send all brown people back 'home'? One quick answer is that the NHS would collapse in half a day -- you or any relatives got many appointments lined up?

Oh, and your pal Farrago has been a long-term admirer of Chump, you want this country to soon be in the same mess that he's sinking the USA into?

I agree with all you said. So right.

SaxonGrace

I’m more than happy for donations to be investigated, however let’s do it to all parties, Dale Vince’s millions to the Labour Party for one, Lord Ali paying for clothes for Starmer and wife, there are numerous instances that need investigating.

Agree but not as serious as accepting £5m.

I truly think some of you are totally missing the point, either deliberating or in error.

For example, Starmer was called out for his acceptance of clothes etc., however it didn’t breach rules, it simply outed him as a hypocrite, and he repaid the funds.

Johnson was also highlighted for many things, including wallpaper for number 10, again, it was all a bit ridiculous, however, even Johnson was found to be just within the rules.

MPs across all parties were investigated during and after lockdown for “breaking the rules”, including PM Johnson and opposition leader, Starmer.

Many, many MPs from across the entire political spectrum “misused” their expenses, they were all investigated and some charged.

Across the years other MPs have been investigated, charged and some even imprisoned.

Farage, on the other hand, has *allegedly” broken rules from the day he was sworn in (first time in 2024), some rule infringements were small, “filming on the Houses of Parliament roof”, “holding an an authorised party in a public place in Tendring, without a permit, (permit was refused)”. Some are more serious and are all related to undeclared donations, and donations from outside of UK.

There’s also questions to answer from other Reform MPs around donations.

In addition there’s “questions” around inciting violence.

All these things from a party officially only existing for 2.5 years with 7 MPs.

It’s really not a good look 😱

If any member of Reform is suspected of infringing parliamentary rules or laws broken, why on earth is investigating them “unfair”?

Quelle surprise.

Another Ad Hominem attack which is Labour's favoured way of working; attack the person not the argument as seen with Boris Johnson.
You are right, Undines about the constant references to Far Right, Hard Right, morphing into Fascists and Nazis, even the wearing of face coverings and black and red clothes; a constant drip feed to plant the connection in people's minds.

Should Labour succeed in getting rid of Farage where will his supporters go? I doubt they will flock to Labour. They seem to forget there are several experienced and skilled politicians waiting in the wings to lead Reform.

Cossy

I truly think some of you are totally missing the point, either deliberating or in error.

For example, Starmer was called out for his acceptance of clothes etc., however it didn’t breach rules, it simply outed him as a hypocrite, and he repaid the funds.

Johnson was also highlighted for many things, including wallpaper for number 10, again, it was all a bit ridiculous, however, even Johnson was found to be just within the rules.

MPs across all parties were investigated during and after lockdown for “breaking the rules”, including PM Johnson and opposition leader, Starmer.

Many, many MPs from across the entire political spectrum “misused” their expenses, they were all investigated and some charged.

Across the years other MPs have been investigated, charged and some even imprisoned.

Farage, on the other hand, has *allegedly” broken rules from the day he was sworn in (first time in 2024), some rule infringements were small, “filming on the Houses of Parliament roof”, “holding an an authorised party in a public place in Tendring, without a permit, (permit was refused)”. Some are more serious and are all related to undeclared donations, and donations from outside of UK.

There’s also questions to answer from other Reform MPs around donations.

In addition there’s “questions” around inciting violence.

All these things from a party officially only existing for 2.5 years with 7 MPs.

It’s really not a good look 😱

If any member of Reform is suspected of infringing parliamentary rules or laws broken, why on earth is investigating them “unfair”?

You forgot that many of those 7 MPs defected from the Conservative party. Reform is a limited company, not a proper parliamentary party.

eazybee

Another Ad Hominem attack which is Labour's favoured way of working; attack the person not the argument as seen with Boris Johnson.
You are right, Undines about the constant references to Far Right, Hard Right, morphing into Fascists and Nazis, even the wearing of face coverings and black and red clothes; a constant drip feed to plant the connection in people's minds.

Should Labour succeed in getting rid of Farage where will his supporters go? I doubt they will flock to Labour. They seem to forget there are several experienced and skilled politicians waiting in the wings to lead Reform.

Good post. 👏 as was undines post.
I agree about the drip, drip too.
The pink ladies who protested obviously wore pink and these guys wear black. So what? Most men love black. Wetherspoons staff wear black, most beauty therapists and hairdressers wear black, the lady who does our feet wears black. Funeral goers wear black.

Yes in addition to black most wore face coverings which I don’t agree with but we saw that with Just Stop Oil and the Pro Palestine marches and they barely got a mention.

What brings politicians down is public opinion, based on media spin. Labour have not got a magic ability to influence media investigations, far from it.

If Farage falls, and I’ve been saying for months that I think he will, it will be absolutely nobody’s fault but his own.

There is a difference between Farage himself and Reform as a party though eazybee, surely? Floating voters will desert Reform if they don’t believe they can succeed without him, but few of them were previously Labour supporters - the electoral fight is for the right. They will mainly go back to the Tories (which is already starting to happen) or to Restore and ilk.

"I’ll be honest, if Reform is even still in existence by the next GE, I’ll be truly amazed!"

You should expect to be amazed then, 3 yrs is a very long time in politics, parties will ebb and flow, Im expecting Reform and Tories to get much closer and not compete for seats.
A lot will depend on how successful Burnham is.

It’s being introduced in Wales from April 2027, and it will be £1.30 per night per room, and 75p for a camping pitch. I envisage it will be similar in the areas of England when it is introduced there, but I’d be interested to see your source Primrose53.

Sorry, wrong thread - this is about tourist tax.

... the Met Police have announced they believe there are potential criminal offenses detailed in the Reform UK documentary last week and will investigate. Now, as the police themselves have said in their public statement, there is already a criminal investigation underway concerning potentially illegal donations and the new evidence will be included. So, this isn't a new investigation. It's just going to expand the current one."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXUeSMGLp8 "Farage Finally Worried by Police Investigation"
Phil Moorhouse on "A different bias".

There can't be much left of Reform - resignations seem to be a daily routine.

Milliedog

Strange how quickly we forget about past scandals, isn't it? Just have a quick Google of 'Scandals of Labour party MPs'. Very interesting. And then the blatant policy of Labour MPs slating private schooling, whilst sending their own children to private schools or somehow managing to slide off the waiting list and enrol them in the very best state schools there are. And hard right? Mm. We sometimes forget there might be a hard left....

I find this kind of response interesting because it seems to confuse three quite different things.

First, justice doesn’t work by weighing one person’s alleged wrongdoing against someone else’s past scandals and deciding that, because others have behaved badly, the matter at hand somehow matters less. If Reform UK is alleged to have broken the law, that deserves proper investigation and, if the evidence supports it, appropriate consequences. The conduct of Labour MPs is not a defence against that.

Second, there’s a distinction between criminality and political hypocrisy. If MPs criticise private education while sending their own children to private schools, or appear to secure places at highly sought-after state schools, that may raise legitimate questions about consistency, privilege and political judgement. But those concerns are not automatically equivalent to allegations of illegal foreign funding. One may be a political faux pas or hypocrisy; the other, if proven, could be a criminal matter. They shouldn’t be treated as interchangeable simply because both are embarrassing.

And third, I’m curious about the reference to the “hard left”. Who, exactly, is being described? Is it anyone who criticises Reform, anyone who supports Labour, or is there a more specific group or policy in mind? Without that clarification, it feels rather like a label being used to suggest that criticism of Reform must come from some ideological extreme.

We can acknowledge Labour’s scandals, criticise hypocrisy wherever we see it, and still insist that allegations of criminal wrongdoing are investigated on their own merits. Those positions aren’t contradictory.

eazybee

Another Ad Hominem attack which is Labour's favoured way of working; attack the person not the argument as seen with Boris Johnson.
You are right, Undines about the constant references to Far Right, Hard Right, morphing into Fascists and Nazis, even the wearing of face coverings and black and red clothes; a constant drip feed to plant the connection in people's minds.

Should Labour succeed in getting rid of Farage where will his supporters go? I doubt they will flock to Labour. They seem to forget there are several experienced and skilled politicians waiting in the wings to lead Reform.

I think you might find the vast majority of those defecting from other parties to support Reform are former Tories, or those who were UKIP and actually those who haven’t voted for many years and in some cases, never.

The vast majority of people “defecting” from Labour, and if I’m perfectly honest, there’s not as many as you are supposing, have actually gone to the Green Party.

However, all of your supposition is simply deflection.

Reform committing any kind of rule/law breaking and the other parties losing support from their own voters, are actually two entirely different subjects and issues.

David49

"I’ll be honest, if Reform is even still in existence by the next GE, I’ll be truly amazed!"

You should expect to be amazed then, 3 yrs is a very long time in politics, parties will ebb and flow, Im expecting Reform and Tories to get much closer and not compete for seats.
A lot will depend on how successful Burnham is.

You’re entitled to your opinion, just I am entitled to mine. Neither of us actually know, I’m not preparing to be “amazed”

I don’t think an investigation, or proof of criminal wrongdoing, or even video proof would deter the kind of person who would vote Reform. Not that I am against investigating those thugs. I just don’t think it will turn the Reform types away. The ‘whataboutism’ is already right here on this thread. Just saying…

SaxonGrace

I’m more than happy for donations to be investigated, however let’s do it to all parties, Dale Vince’s millions to the Labour Party for one, Lord Ali paying for clothes for Starmer and wife, there are numerous instances that need investigating.

Exactly this 👏👏👏

It’s completely clear, on this thread, that whilst those of us who don’t support Reform, whichever party we do support, and I know there’s others on here not supporting Reform, who equally are not Labour supporters, nor are they hard left nor liberal loony left, what they/us all have in common, illustrated extremely well on this thread, is that when MPs from their own parties commit a rule break, a law break or any other kind of mistake or error, we don’t immediately blame another political party or attempt to deny it.

Starmer didn’t break rules, he didn’t break the law, he didn’t incite violence.

What he did do was disappoint his members, make some unforgivable mistakes and he paid the price for this. Likewise Angela Rayner.

Johnson was also guilty of similar actions, particularly his handling of Covid, where he was investigated and he held up his hands to errors made on his part and that of his party.

If Farage et al are all innocent, of all things accused of, then they have nothing to worry about and any and all investigations will prove this.

What I truly don’t understand is why supporters of Reform cannot accept that these investigations have to be investigated thoroughly, just as they have been for dozens of MPs across the decades?