This is low, even for Reform

Casdon

I’m afraid the measures you suggest are Cloud cuckoo land Meandrogrog. Not because we currently have a Labour government, as they would not be achievable in the current economic climate in the real world regardless of the party in charge.

Absolutely doable as Kemi Badenoch has mentioned doing, and I very much doubt she lives in cloud cuckoo land, which is quite an unpleasant comment.

Are you inexperienced in the promises of politicians Meandrogrog? That’s the only conclusion I can draw if you really think that Kemi Badenoch is doing anything other than promising things to win back voters, rather than because she thinks they are doable. Many of these things would have been done under the last Tory government if they had been deliverable. That’s the supreme irony.

Meandrogrog 17:07

Your political beliefs and views are entirely valid. I simply have a different view.

Clearly not enough people are angry with what you perceive that the LP spend our taxes on, as the LP won power just over two and a bit short years ago with a resounding majority.

We are completely diametrically opposed politically. But that’s fine.

I, like many others, simply had enough of 14 years of Tory rule, particularly austerity, which achieved nothing, and drove our public services into the ground.

I too would love to see the personal tax allowance rise, but this wasn’t instigated by any Labour government?

“ They are a government of soak those they see as wealthy. I have it from the horses mouth what benefit money goes on, for some, alcohol and drugs. I know this to be 100% factual.”

You might think your statement is 100% factual, but unless you’ve interviewed every benefit recipient in the UK, it simply cannot be 100% accurate.

I would remind you again, that almost half the people in receipt of Universal Credit are actually in work. They aren’t prisoners, they can buy themselves a pint or a bottle of wine if they like!

I can see you’re angry, people have every right to be angry.

I simply don’t agree Reform are the answer, but it’s entirely your right and your business whom you support.

I very much doubt they’ll ever be forming a government, either with or without a coalition.

Casdon

I’m afraid the measures you suggest are Cloud cuckoo land Meandrogrog. Not because we currently have a Labour government, as they would not be achievable in the current economic climate in the real world regardless of the party in charge.

How would they be funded? I see no mention of increasing taxes, simply decreasing them in various ways?

That is the supreme irony Casdon. Meandrogrog....oh please! Do you really think that, after 14 years of the Conservatives and the appalling state they left this country in. I'm not even going to mention the journey they took us on. I think the GP are more discerning than you give them credit.

What are Reform policies, that will make things better for the ordinary citizen?
Importing one of those ICE bullies from the USA.
Would said bully be armed?
Well, Farage has said that he thought the ban on handguns was wrong.
Not sure how that would be an improvement on what we have here at the moment.
Reduce restrictions on crypto currency?
Nope, won't improve the situation here.

Indeed. What are their policies Maremia. Do they know?
An interesting article by Penny Lane News Editor for ITV from 2025 :
Why many people on social media are afraid of Reform UK Voters : They have a culture of Rudeness, Angry Denial and ignorance, and are worryingly misinformed. A toxic online subculture has developed around the party.
So no possibility of reasonable debate.

Plevey08

Indeed. What are their policies Maremia. Do they know?
An interesting article by Penny Lane News Editor for ITV from 2025 :
Why many people on social media are afraid of Reform UK Voters : They have a culture of Rudeness, Angry Denial and ignorance, and are worryingly misinformed. A toxic online subculture has developed around the party.
So no possibility of reasonable debate.

Oh, how very unfair 😜

Actually, for anyone who ever ventures onto Facebook or X, can pop across and judge for themselves.

I know Cossy, I know 😜

All I know about Reform policies and plans are;

100 days and they’ll be no more boats, oops no, I mean 5 years.

Some of, or is it all of, of parts of, the NHS may or may not be fully or partially privatised.

Personal Tax Allowances will be raised to £20,000, oh no, hang on a minute, no we are not doing that anymore.

Those people claiming benefits will not have them anymore, except those who do need them and no more PIP unless you’re very very disabled and certainly not for those with mental health issues, or may some can have it, or maybe not.

Those migrants here legally might have to go back to where they came from, except those doing jobs British people don’t want, then maybe they can stay.

Perhaps we might allow some to have their own guns, but only if they voted Reform.

🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

I feel the need for some descriptive adjectives Cossy for this riddle wrapped in an enigma:
Unfathomable, Inscrutable, Impenetrable...and so on.

Plevey08

I feel the need for some descriptive adjectives Cossy for this riddle wrapped in an enigma:
Unfathomable, Inscrutable, Impenetrable...and so on.

Impossible, improbable, unworkable, …. That sort of thing?

Maremia

What are Reform policies, that will make things better for the ordinary citizen?
Importing one of those ICE bullies from the USA.
Would said bully be armed?
Well, Farage has said that he thought the ban on handguns was wrong.
Not sure how that would be an improvement on what we have here at the moment.
Reduce restrictions on crypto currency?
Nope, won't improve the situation here.

If - by the "ordinary citizen" you mean Theresa May's just about managing, as well as those who are poorly-paid like care-workers and hospitality-industry staff - then I don't think their lives will significantly improve.

Yes, he might raise the income-tax threshold - he said to £20k but I suspect this would be an incremental increase and would depend on market forces. And anyway, he's rowed back on that a bit now. Farage is very much a traditional free-market man in many ways. He is, or was, an ardent Thatcherite though has since become a bit of a neo-liberal hybrid.

He would rely on the traditional method of funding tax-cuts by eliminating "government waste" though this has been done so frequently that I'd be surprised if there's much waste left to eliminate. He pledged to cut around £50 billion from departments and quangos.

Independent economists argue that saving sums this vast is impossible through efficiency alone.

To actually achieve such savings he would - according to intelligence, have to "make deep, structural cuts to the quantity or quality of everyday public services—such as roads, policing, local councils, and school budgets".

As for the NHS - well we know he (currently anyway) favours a European-style insurance-based system. Which is worth looking at, but at the same time, it should be understood that such systems have high 'up-front' costs and 'out-of-pocket' charges. That means that patients might have to pay up front for doctor visits, prescriptions, and procedures. recouping some of it back later.

The would be impact on low-earners is obvious, and we know what happens to the JAMs with such policies - we saw it with the Winter Fuel Allowance... they fall into a gap. Their income is too high to qualify for State exemption, but too little to easily absorb the monthly cost of mandatory top-up insurance.

The very wealthy are, as always, immune, the very poor are exempt, but those in the middle, and I suspect that includes a few on GN, get, once again, squeezed. Leading to cries of, "what's the point of working hard and saving"...

And, ultimately, a complex multi-payer insurance system requires a huge billing and admin infrastructure, syphoning money away from front-line services.

And then, of course, there's the crypto... not something the ordinary citizen has benefitted from so far I'm sure.

I think it's worth focusing on his policies other than the one on immigration. Because I suspect what would be gained on the income-tax threshold raise swing would be lost on the increased cost's (as above) roundabout.

Excellent post, Dickens. 👏

Do people actually understand that when government departments or public services are told to cut £££££££ from their budgets, they don’t cut down on stationary or redecoration (because in many departments buildings are pretty dilapidated for “normal” workers and you’ll lucky if you can find a stationary cupboard or even a pencil!

This will be staff cuts.

Many staff.

How will that help?

Plevey08

That is the supreme irony Casdon. Meandrogrog....oh please! Do you really think that, after 14 years of the Conservatives and the appalling state they left this country in. I'm not even going to mention the journey they took us on. I think the GP are more discerning than you give them credit.

Labour are destroying this country. The wealthy and wealth creators are apparently leaving for more tax friendly countries. I do not have any idea of how discerning the general public are. Why do you think I have?

You persist in making statement that have no substance.

How are Labour destroying the country? What have they done in the last two years that makes you think that?

The wealthy do not "create" wealth for anyone other than themselves. They don’t create money. It’s just the same amount of money in circulation moving from one person’s pocket to another.

Name one wealthy person allegedly leaving the country because of tax who has made you wealthier?

Destroying our country?
You mean in the way that the Tories did?

The wealthy do not "create" wealth for anyone other than themselves. They don’t create money. It’s just the same amount of money in circulation moving from one person’s pocket to another.

Thanks for pointing that out, Graphite, as I have done on many occasions. 😆

The only legal ‘creator’ of money is the government (and banks which do so under licence from the government).
It is actually illegal for anyone else to create money. It’s known as forgery and punishable by law…

I know this is a really, really difficult idea for people to get their heads round; god knows I’ve tried enough times to explain it, but it is completely incontrovertible fact.

Meandrogrog

Plevey08

That is the supreme irony Casdon. Meandrogrog....oh please! Do you really think that, after 14 years of the Conservatives and the appalling state they left this country in. I'm not even going to mention the journey they took us on. I think the GP are more discerning than you give them credit.

Labour are destroying this country. The wealthy and wealth creators are apparently leaving for more tax friendly countries. I do not have any idea of how discerning the general public are. Why do you think I have?

Well you’re brave saying that on here! They are also destroying my country but the thing is, the alternatives aren’t a whole heap better. I do like Kemi but I think she might be a bit of a lone voice. I had really high hopes of Burnham but so far not a lot.

nanna8

Meandrogrog

Plevey08

That is the supreme irony Casdon. Meandrogrog....oh please! Do you really think that, after 14 years of the Conservatives and the appalling state they left this country in. I'm not even going to mention the journey they took us on. I think the GP are more discerning than you give them credit.

Labour are destroying this country. The wealthy and wealth creators are apparently leaving for more tax friendly countries. I do not have any idea of how discerning the general public are. Why do you think I have?

Well you’re brave saying that on here! They are also destroying my country but the thing is, the alternatives aren’t a whole heap better. I do like Kemi but I think she might be a bit of a lone voice. I had really high hopes of Burnham but so far not a lot.

Thank you for saying I am brave 😉 but I really dont care about being piled on by Labour supporters and will continue to state my beliefs. I am sorry you feel the same about your country. Many people here feel the same as us and that is why Reform are gaining votes. I believe something similar is happening in Germany. Something has to change!

Cossy

Meandrogrog 17:07

Your political beliefs and views are entirely valid. I simply have a different view.

Clearly not enough people are angry with what you perceive that the LP spend our taxes on, as the LP won power just over two and a bit short years ago with a resounding majority.

We are completely diametrically opposed politically. But that’s fine.

I, like many others, simply had enough of 14 years of Tory rule, particularly austerity, which achieved nothing, and drove our public services into the ground.

I too would love to see the personal tax allowance rise, but this wasn’t instigated by any Labour government?

“ They are a government of soak those they see as wealthy. I have it from the horses mouth what benefit money goes on, for some, alcohol and drugs. I know this to be 100% factual.”

You might think your statement is 100% factual, but unless you’ve interviewed every benefit recipient in the UK, it simply cannot be 100% accurate.

I would remind you again, that almost half the people in receipt of Universal Credit are actually in work. They aren’t prisoners, they can buy themselves a pint or a bottle of wine if they like!

I can see you’re angry, people have every right to be angry.

I simply don’t agree Reform are the answer, but it’s entirely your right and your business whom you support.

I very much doubt they’ll ever be forming a government, either with or without a coalition.

Cossy I know my statement is 100% factual about SOME benefit claimants which I was careful to say in my post.

Graphite

You persist in making statement that have no substance.

How are Labour destroying the country? What have they done in the last two years that makes you think that?

The wealthy do not "create" wealth for anyone other than themselves. They don’t create money. It’s just the same amount of money in circulation moving from one person’s pocket to another.

Name one wealthy person allegedly leaving the country because of tax who has made you wealthier?

There is plenty on a google search about how a Labour government is bad news, I have listed in other posts what a Tory government could do to change for the better. Leaving the ECHR would be a good start. I believe Labour may u turn on inheritance tax for farmers in the budget. What a vile tax in the first place! Labour have brought in tax on inherited pensions, despicable people! We now have an unelected PM who no one voted in. An election should have been called but I assume will not be. I doubt Labour would be re elected. I personally know people who have said they will never vote Labour again.

Meandrogrog

Cossy I know my statement is 100% factual about SOME benefit claimants which I was careful to say in my post.

I know Cossy can speak for herself, but out of curiosity and interest, I'd like to know if you are citing this as one of the reasons - or maybe the reason why Labour is "destroying" this country?

Here, very briefly, are the government's own statistics.

Total benefit overpayments due to fraud - and error - account for just 3.2% of total welfare expenditure.

- plus that 3.2% figure is not entirely due to benefit fraud.

It also includes genuine 'claimant error' and 'official error' - errors made by the DWP, HMRC and local councils.

... and here's the kicker, billions of pounds in means-tested benefits go completely unclaimed every year by people who are legally entitled to them, which often eclipses the amount lost to both the above fraud and errors.

This same principle - with only slight variations - was as true under the Tory government as it is now under a Labour government. So if benefit fraud is one of your reasons supporting the notion that Labour is destroying the country - it's really not a very good example is it?

And, if you really believe that Labour is ruining the country - then I assume you have a fixed point in mind when things were running along smoothly prior to this point. So at what point did Labour start on its ruinous course?

BTW, I'm not a fixed Labour voter, so I'm not questioning you from that standpoint.

Dickens

Meandrogrog

Cossy I know my statement is 100% factual about SOME benefit claimants which I was careful to say in my post.

I know Cossy can speak for herself, but out of curiosity and interest, I'd like to know if you are citing this as one of the reasons - or maybe the reason why Labour is "destroying" this country?

Here, very briefly, are the government's own statistics.

Total benefit overpayments due to fraud - and error - account for just 3.2% of total welfare expenditure.

- plus that 3.2% figure is not entirely due to benefit fraud.

It also includes genuine 'claimant error' and 'official error' - errors made by the DWP, HMRC and local councils.

... and here's the kicker, billions of pounds in means-tested benefits go completely unclaimed every year by people who are legally entitled to them, which often eclipses the amount lost to both the above fraud and errors.

This same principle - with only slight variations - was as true under the Tory government as it is now under a Labour government. So if benefit fraud is one of your reasons supporting the notion that Labour is destroying the country - it's really not a very good example is it?

And, if you really believe that Labour is ruining the country - then I assume you have a fixed point in mind when things were running along smoothly prior to this point. So at what point did Labour start on its ruinous course?

BTW, I'm not a fixed Labour voter, so I'm not questioning you from that standpoint.

Maybe I can just point out that I am not meaning benefit fraud as in fraudulently claiming benefits.

A family member is receiving benefits due to mental health, self inflicted problems. This person receives more than a contemporary would earn in a full time job, and spends this money on alcohol and drugs, as I have been informed that so do the people living around this person in social housing, rent fully paid. This person also has carers each day to clean the flat and provide support.

The taxpayer is funding all this.

What is your opinion on this Dickens? I am not being combative towards you, just curious to know if you feel this is acceptable to you?

I did vote Tory until Boris was knifed in the back and now vote Reform. Kemi does have some good ideas though, she comes across as wanting to take tough decisions for the good of the country.