Burnham - rejoin Europe in one shape or form?

You and I personally can't know what the majority of the British public can know I agree.

We can and do know what numbers of various polls conclude on such matters.

Polls too have their own bias. Questions skewed in a certain way, demographics improperly represented etc. Which is why pollsters often get results wrong. And I’m sure sometimes those polled don’t tell the truth anyway. So 🤷‍♀️

It’s guessology at best. I set little store by them even when favourable to my beliefs.

Try PollCheck FriedGreenTomatoes2. You’re right regarding individual polls, but PollCheck collates and compares them, and because the polls are compiled from various interests, the amalgamated version is much more accurate than they are individually. They were spot on for the last election.

It's not a case of GB deciding whether to have a referendum!
I live in the EU and, this is a generalisation, but many Europeans are genuinely perplexed and offended that Britain chose to leave after benefitting from all the help and subsidies they received during the EU years.
I'm guessing that if Britain tried to re enter, the first condition would be that we lose Sterling and switch to the Euro. None of the concessions GB previously negotiated would apply. Imagine how that would pan out!
It's clear that over half of the UK electorate is too stupid to understand this. I put it down to the dumbing down of the education system.
Peace in our time..this was Churchill's mantra after the WWII. YEAH right...look where our precious Britain is now...broken, crumbling, anarchy taking over.
I'm glad I'm old.
Ps it might not have been WC who said that so don't jump all over me. That was the essence of his idea for a united Europe with UK fully included

Whether we rejoin the european market or have some other arrangement with them, it will be much better, if we use reality and common sense and accept we are a amall island both phyically close and mentally a darn sight more close to them than to the lunatic Trump and co. Why on earth we wanted to hang onto americas coat tails and be told what and when to do by them, when it is always to our disadvantage I dont know.

I have travelled a lot and lived abroad for quite a considerable time, and the british do not seem to recognise how many people have and are working with european firms and companies. A practical organisation to make sure that there is ease of arrangements to be able to work abroad , and avoidance of any of Trumps totally untrustworthy offers, and let him take his planes back and not have them on british soil is good news as far as I can see. If you had a friend or worked with someone who could never be trusted to keep their promises, changed their minds daily and thought only of ME ME ME any sensible person would keep them at a distance at least and never trust them to do what they say.So why are we listening to the lunatic Trump, who even now is mostly concerned, not with the good of his country, but how to grab more money and be as selfish as possible. I would tend to doubt the sanity of anyone who willingly let such a person tell them what to do, so lets use common sense, and avoid relying on a single thing that man says.

Whitewavemark2

We have a few options open. One being the Swiss agreement. The other being the Norwegian route. I think it unlikely st present that we will become fully paid up members again.

We won't get a Swiss agreement, it's a major point of disagreement in the EU because the Swiss abuse it so much. It's not practical to enforce the rules they should be following so they get away with it.

A Norway agreement is possible but Schengen and freedom of movement will need to be agreed, full membership highly unlikely

madeleine, yes.

Sago

Labour wont like having to remove the VAT on private school fees if we rejoin the EU.

Well, ironically they might!
Reports show that Labour's estimate of 40,000 pupils leaving the independent sector over 10 years were grossly incorrect. 56,000 have left already, in 15 months, so by 10 years we could be into 6 figures. All these children need placing in state schools at huge financial costs.
Maybe rejoining the EU, and removal of the 25% VAT, would mean that a fair few of them return into the private sector. Maybe it wouldn't. Labour could have shot itself in the foot.

Yes madeleine well put. The so called special relationship is a joke pedalled by Thatcher and Reagan, but then probably relevant and reassuring. Not so now. Trump would sell his own grandmother (if he still had one) in order to justify his insane ideas.
Americans are moving over here to Europe in numbers and those who are already here are fearful that he will never be held to account for what he has done to the USA and the rest of the world. In the west we are all suffering for his madness.
And yet subsequent British governments continue to kiss his gross backside. Why? He would kick UK under the bus on a whim! I too am glad he's removed his nasty warplanes from Fairford..it will be interesting to know where he's put them.

The B1 bombers have returned to Ellsworth Airbase in South Dakota, they can easily be reactivated if needed.

A drone attack in the UK is a credible threat we let anyone in these days and large drones are easily available, it's not possible to guarantee a security area large enough to protect any airfield in UK

Burnham in talks with Germany over defence. I suspect this will be one of many, as europe decides it’s future defence strategy.

Burnham told by our security services that Russia interfered directly with Brexit.

I always thought this would be the case, and it is clear that every prime minister has suppressed that information since 2017.

That suspicion has been floating around for 10 years- now confirmed. Obviously previous PMs would also have been made aware and chose not to share such evidence. Evidently Putin believed the UK is a weaker adversary outside the EU and sought to fracture the EU also.

LemonJam

That suspicion has been floating around for 10 years- now confirmed. Obviously previous PMs would also have been made aware and chose not to share such evidence. Evidently Putin believed the UK is a weaker adversary outside the EU and sought to fracture the EU also.

You don't have to be a great strategist to believe in "divide and conquer" anything that weakens alliances is to adversaries interests. The Ukraine war has erupted since Brexit Putin decided he could annex Ukraine, he hasn't succeeded yet but it's done a lot of damage to Europe

Andy Burnham getting himself tied up in knots with his latest claim that Russia influenced the referendum on Brexit.
On one hand he says they interfered, despite that being refuted at the time and on the other hand that the result was legitimate.
Make your mind up Burnham, it can't be both.
He is desperate to rejoin an EU that has changed since we left. The far right are making great strides in Europe and our GDP is better than France, Germany and Spain so I fail to see why we want to saddle ourselves with that.
Stand fast with Europe over defence but turning back the clock and conveniently ignoring a democratic referendum is not the way to do it.

Flippin2

No to rejoining

Agreed, the EU is just modern day colonialism, with one Country 'driving the Bus', no prizes for guessing which !..... I hope the EU implodes and destroys itself.......

Sarnia

Andy Burnham getting himself tied up in knots with his latest claim that Russia influenced the referendum on Brexit.
On one hand he says they interfered, despite that being refuted at the time and on the other hand that the result was legitimate.
Make your mind up Burnham, it can't be both.
He is desperate to rejoin an EU that has changed since we left. The far right are making great strides in Europe and our GDP is better than France, Germany and Spain so I fail to see why we want to saddle ourselves with that.
Stand fast with Europe over defence but turning back the clock and conveniently ignoring a democratic referendum is not the way to do it.

But you see two things can be true at once.

Yes, there is clear evidence that Russia tried to interfere both in the referendum and the 2019 election.

No, there is no substantial evidence, that it materially affected the result.

With regard to the EU. If the U.K. cam negotiate improved trading agreements, which resulted in U.K. businesses becoming more profitable, and our GDP rising, why wouldn’t you? It is a no brainer.

Luke Pollard MP (Minister of State for Defence Readiness and Industry)is doing the breakfast news junkets today.

He is again waffling over the meaning of what the PM said on the podcast.

His version, there was an attempt to interfere in the 2016 referendum and the 2019 elections but these tempts were unsuccessful.

Oops Whitewavemark2 just reread your post, at least GN members agree on something!

If the interference in 2016 was unsuccessful surely that means that Russia wanted us to remain in the EU ?

GrannyGravy13

Luke Pollard MP (Minister of State for Defence Readiness and Industry)is doing the breakfast news junkets today.

He is again waffling over the meaning of what the PM said on the podcast.

His version, there was an attempt to interfere in the 2016 referendum and the 2019 elections but these tempts were unsuccessful.

I really don’t understand why the government doesn’t find something else to focus on for the morning news rounds. Or just stop doing them.

There is irrefutable proof that Russia has tried to influence politics in the UK for many years. It’s detailed in the extract from the DCMS Select Committee reports which I posted on the ‘Russian interference’ thread yesterday.

OTOH, I don’t think that it can be proved in either direction that Russian influence affected the votes. It is a complete waste of ministerial time to wheel them out to say that the attempts were unsuccessful. Anyone with half a brain must be able to see that it is impossible to reach that conclusion. So why do it?

specki4eyes

It's not a case of GB deciding whether to have a referendum!
I live in the EU and, this is a generalisation, but many Europeans are genuinely perplexed and offended that Britain chose to leave after benefitting from all the help and subsidies they received during the EU years.
I'm guessing that if Britain tried to re enter, the first condition would be that we lose Sterling and switch to the Euro. None of the concessions GB previously negotiated would apply. Imagine how that would pan out!
It's clear that over half of the UK electorate is too stupid to understand this. I put it down to the dumbing down of the education system.
Peace in our time..this was Churchill's mantra after the WWII. YEAH right...look where our precious Britain is now...broken, crumbling, anarchy taking over.
I'm glad I'm old.
Ps it might not have been WC who said that so don't jump all over me. That was the essence of his idea for a united Europe with UK fully included

I agree with your analysis.
And am afraid is supreme arrogance to suppose the EU is prepared to allow the UK to rejoin with the same benefits etc. Indeed it would be a long and complicated business as well as costly, so obviously that isn’t going to happen anytime soon if ever.
But Burnham like Starmer is right to get closer to our European allies and hopefully start to move away from dependence on the US which has proved quite dramatically that it can be unpredictable and dangerous when it comes to our national security. Even when Trump goes we would be wise to keep in mind that he was voted in twice, and the voters that voted him in are unlikely to change their views, so a few years down the line the Democrats might get in but after that?? Who knows? Vance is not going away.

To be fair maizie they have to put up with the questions that they are asked, and the presenters are a tad unimaginative at times.

Whitewavemark2

To be fair maizie they have to put up with the questions that they are asked, and the presenters are a tad unimaginative at times.

Totally agree on that 👍

For the moment it's a ploy to win back Remainers and Rejoiners from the LDS, Greens, etc., but with careful handling it might become a viable route to economic prosperity and better defence security. Of course, the EU has changed but that's not set in stone.