Gransnet forums

News & politics

Who will be left in the Labour Party?

(371 Posts)
trisher Tue 01-Dec-20 09:46:02

Angela Rayner is apparently willing to suspend "thousands of members" in order to tackle antisemitism, so is she right? Is it as widespread as she imaginesor is it once again a fight between the LP members and its leadership. And if they are all suspended who will be left?
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-angela-rayner-antisemitism-thousands-suspended-jeremy-corbyn-b1763577.html

biba70 Tue 01-Dec-20 13:31:57

good question trisher - back to you. Starmer or AR are not the ones trying to distroy the Party and ensure the absolutely appalling, selfish, dreadful Tories keep destroying the country unopposed. For sure.

Anniebach Tue 01-Dec-20 13:39:02

Agree biba70.

trisher Tue 01-Dec-20 13:50:30

But it's not me trying to get rid of people biba70 it's Rayner &co. So are all these people antsemitic or simply democratic?

Davidhs Tue 01-Dec-20 14:11:50

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oldtimer60 Tue 01-Dec-20 14:17:41

biba70

good question trisher - back to you. Starmer or AR are not the ones trying to distroy the Party and ensure the absolutely appalling, selfish, dreadful Tories keep destroying the country unopposed. For sure.

The problem is that should this government fall, which now seems very possible, the country has to have an opposition party that is fit for government or even run a coordinated election campaign. However, the situation in the Labour Party has now become totally ridiculous due to a leadership which seems determined to utterly destroy the party.

Starmer's dictate to not allow any reference regarding the suspension of Jeremy Corbyn or the withholding of the whip from him to be discussed at any party meeting has been met with a wholesale refusal to comply with such at Constituency and District level. Therefore Starmer and his deputy seem to have determined that all party officers at that level who have allowed discussion at meetings along with those that spoke in discussions at those same meetings will have to be thrown out of the party.

It would seem that virtually all members whether they be on the left or right of the party just cannot believe what is happening and that the Labour Party has a leader who has acted in such an undemocratic, ludicrous and outrageous manner.

It would seem that a successful leadership challenge in the new year is to be the only way of holding this Labour party together in any way, while in the meantime the plans for setting up a new well funded party of the left continue to advance.

What a state British politics is in, and at the time when credible leadership is overwhelmingly needed in both main parties.

Luckygirl Tue 01-Dec-20 14:32:31

I do not see myself as any sort of expert on this, but if sackings are to occur on the basis of antisemitism, then it is important that the term is defined properly, and also the unacceptable actions or words.

Is this about the Labour party itself dealing with actions or words that are part of their normal activity and built-in; or is it about not allowing members of that party to express what might be a legitimate concern about an action by Israel or a specific person who happen
s to be of the Jewish faith? The first is a reasonable thing to do; the second is about free speech, and presumably the party does not wish to be seen to be curbing this in any way.

Ilovecheese Tue 01-Dec-20 15:18:43

The membership is certainly becoming a lot smaller even without Angela Rayner being willing to reduce it by thousands more.
Who will be left? corporate donors I suppose, who will want some sort of influence for their donations, the same as donors to the Conservative party.

The party under Keir Starmer may not want to be seen to be curbing free speech, that is how it is beginning to look.

trisher Tue 01-Dec-20 16:00:19

I do think as well that the LP is missing an opportunity. It is obvious now that this epidemic is having most impact on poorer sections of society and someone should be speaking up for these people. Instead its leaders are tearing this party apart.

Ilovecheese Tue 01-Dec-20 16:14:32

Yes, Trisher, they look more interested in themselves than about trying to help people.
Perhaps Keir Starmer thinks he has so much time before another election that he can get the party sorted out to his satisfaction before talking about what he would like to do with power.

trisher Tue 01-Dec-20 16:25:57

Although with the CLPs all suspended and the Unions opting out who will he have left?

Ilovecheese Tue 01-Dec-20 16:41:39

Alan Sugar?

trisher Tue 01-Dec-20 16:48:57

ilovecheese grin

Fennel Tue 01-Dec-20 18:07:25

I don't think Angela Raynor's threat will make a jot of difference to the popularity of the LP. Our recent decline has a lot more behind it that that. much more complex.
Yes it's depressing. On top of the stress of no social contacts due to Covid.
Starmer may be expert at demolishing Johnson at PMQs, but I can't see that he's shown any positive leadership yet.
He has told labour MPs to abstain from the vote on the new tier regs. tonight, to show up the split in the Tories. But couldn't Johnson retaliate by controlling his rebels in some way?

Urmstongran Tue 01-Dec-20 18:14:03

There has been speculation for weeks about the future of the Labour Party. Union funding, influence of Momentum, it not being ‘left wing enough’ for some party members etc.

If the LP splits won’t both sections just become an irrelevance?

Worrying.

Grany Tue 01-Dec-20 18:33:40

Both Starmer and Rayner in videos supported and defended Corbyn against media claims of AS Now they are doing the exact opposite Is it anything to do with their support of friends of Israel ?

The wrong type of Jew

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SjhHhL_15Nw

This woman speaks such truth

On Palistine commemoration day they KS and AR were at Friends of Israel meeting.

trisher Tue 01-Dec-20 19:07:53

Thanks Grany Amazing woman.

biba70 Tue 01-Dec-20 20:00:34

Oldtimer60- I agree thus far

''The problem is that should this government fall, which now seems very possible, the country has to have an opposition party that is fit for government or even run a coordinated election campaign. However, the situation in the Labour Party has now become totally ridiculous due ....''

totally disagree with the rest of your post. Starmer was at last someone who was finally electable and could win back a lot of those who left. But the 'Left' has been undermining him and fighting him from the start, and even more since Corbyn was removed for good reasons (and NO, I do not, and never believed that he is antisemite). Starmer just can't win- damend if he does, damned if he does not - and the losers will be us and the country- the party destroyed and condemned to remain un-electable. If you prefer this to this appalling Tory Governement - then I just cannot put words together to express how illogical this is- and what a ginormous, humongous owl goal this is.

Urmstongran Tue 01-Dec-20 20:42:30

Digressing slightly, Labour are a joke. MPs should never abstain from a vote, they are paid to be the voice of their constituents surely? What on earth was Keir Starmer playing at tonight?

varian Tue 01-Dec-20 20:52:18

Thanks Grany for your link to this impassioned speaker. Her voice deserves to be heard.

MaizieD Tue 01-Dec-20 21:01:10

Urmstongran

Digressing slightly, Labour are a joke. MPs should never abstain from a vote, they are paid to be the voice of their constituents surely? What on earth was Keir Starmer playing at tonight?

It's about time you learned, Ug how parliamentary representation is meant to work. No, they are not paid to be the 'voice of their constituents'.

Labour took the only feasible option this evening.

Urmstongran Tue 01-Dec-20 21:05:21

Until election time rolls around MaizieD ... then we seem to count very much.
😂

biba70 Tue 01-Dec-20 21:09:54

Yes, amazing, inspiring woman.

Dinahmo Tue 01-Dec-20 21:21:23

Urmstongran

Digressing slightly, Labour are a joke. MPs should never abstain from a vote, they are paid to be the voice of their constituents surely? What on earth was Keir Starmer playing at tonight?

Apparently there were only 2 options for the vote - the revised tier system or nothing. Staying in lockdown wasn't an option.
If the LP had voted with the govt then whenever something went wrong Johnson would attack Starmer for being "Mr Hindsight" as he has done in the past. By abstaining Starmer can criticize the govt as necessary.

Urmstongran Tue 01-Dec-20 21:26:07

Thank you for explaining that to me Dinahmo - much more insightful & educational than telling me ‘it’s about time I learned’ something.