Let's start a blitz on bad grammar - nationwide

Another question for the pedants: if you can be overwhelmed and underwhelmed, can you be whelmed?

Outside is what I thought but it's nice to have it comfirmed by fellow pedants.

Outside. But what if it is a full sentence that is being quoted, and there is a full stop at the end of what is being quoted?

Outside.

A question for the pedants: when one uses quotation marks and the bit one is quoting finishes the sentence, should the full stop come inside the end quote marks or outside?

Just looking at the post about the "itinerary" for the day reminds me of the meeting where we were all asked to make sure we were "singing from the same menu"...

gally, I once listened to a debate between Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens. Blair used all those irritating speech mannerisms right through the speech, essentially, I thought, because his arguments were weak. Also, because half of what he's always trying to achieve in public is to say: Look at me! I'm really such a nice guy! Hitchens' use of language was strong and forceful, with no padding, as were his arguments. No prizes for guessing who won the debate.

I am saddened by the use, by intelligent, educated young people, of "would of", instead of "would've" or "would have". They haven't been taught the difference between verbs and prepositions. Teachers should of known better.

Dialogue in shop:
Self: "I'd like to pay for this please."
Shop assistant: "No problem!"
Self (silently) PROBLEM? OF COURSE IT'S NOT A PROBLEM! THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE HERE FOR, TO TAKE MY MONEY! WHAT YOU SHOULD SAY NOW IS 'THANK YOU'!
Grrrr.....

I agree with so much of this discussion, particularly using 'myself' in the wrong context. I have just been listening to Tony Blair being interviewed on Radio 4 Today programme. In nearly every sentence he used 'look', 'I mean', 'you see' and called the Government 'the Govermernt'. I always maintain that respect went out of the window when he became PM, took off his jacket and tie and said 'Call me Tony'! My youngest daughter has just told me that I am becoming a grumpy old granny - I know I am but isn't it fun!

Wouldn't it be awful if everyone spoke same as what I do? It's our differences that make us who we are, and I talk like my parents, is that so bad?

Being from Lancashire, I was quite offended when I was given a lesson on how to speak today at work from a Liverpudlian (or is that Scouser, not sure?)... I didn't even realise I did it.. but quite often, if not always forget to use the word "the" as in "take your phone off't hook" (CAN YOU TAKE YOUR PHONE OFF THE HOOK!! or "can you come tet door" CAN YOU COME TO THE DOOR! - I can't even speak proper English! Oh well suppose I better go tet garden now, and dig upt weeds!

The one that really makes me extra grumpy is "d'ya know what I mean".
I tell them every time that yes I do know what they mean, they don't have to keep asking me. Less and fewer also get my goat especially in supermarkets - with all their money they can afford to take English lessons! Also the dreaded apostrophe. My grandaughter's Brownie pack has the names of the sixes on the wall as follows: Badger's, Weasel's, Stoat's, Otter's, Beaver's and yes .... Foxe's. AAAHHH.

Ooh! Cringe! The Scottish education system was evidently going downhill then. I'm assuming it was Scotland because of your use of the word 'depute'; in England we have deputies.
I can't remember hearing or seeing itinerary used in place of agenda but that's just ridiculous. To be completely frivolous, agenda is so much easier to pronounce!
I have heard misnomer being used completely out of context. The people who use it just to mean a mistake presumably think they are being clever.

Neatly put, Annobel. A few years ago, while I was still teaching, I had to bite my tongue when a depute head teacher used the term criterias!
How do you feel about the use of itinerary instead of agenda. The same DHT was discussing the itinerary for the day. Believe me we were not planning a journey but were facing the awful prospect of a dreary inset day.

Another thing: 'criteria' is plural - not that I need to tell my fellow pedants that. I cheer when I hear (quite rarely now) someone on the media saying 'criterion' correctly. Likewise 'phenomenon' and 'phenomena'. You don't need to have studied the classics to know about these plurals, but you do need to be taught about them. I've given up on 'medium' and 'media'. The latter seems to be used as singular or plural interchangeably.

Hi Faye: We were taught - more than half a century ago that we should say 'an hotel' with a silent h. but even then that sounded a bit affected and I don't think my Victorian grannies used it. I never in my life heard anyone say 'an hospital'.

I have a few myself that I notice a lot, one I am unsure of is the use of yesterdee and Wednesdee instead of yesterday and Wednesday...did I miss something, are these word meant to be pronounced this way?

When I read an hospital I feel annoyed. I believe it is correct to use an before an unsounded h, such as honerable or honest and a before words such as hotel.

The other is using I instead of me.

Dobbie, your "How about the word "really" being overused and repeated, (as in something is really really brill etc.)." reminded me of the concept of reduplication in Bahasa Indonesia. To stress a word or make it a superlative they simply repeat the word (usually an adjective), so a tikus is a mouse, tikus besar is a big mouse, and tikus besar besar is a rat. The standard reposnse to "how are you" (Apa kabar - literally "what news") is "Saya baik baik saja" which is "I'm really really good/well".

What bugs me are the two 'expressions' if one can call them that which I find repeatedly in cafes/restaurants (1) you place an order and the waiter replies 'no problem' and (2) you ask for a glass of water or similar and the reply is 'no worries'. I know they mean to be polite and helpful but I do find it irritating.

Also when I worked with people who claimed 'We ain't done nuffink' they seemed puzzled when I assumed that they had, in fact, 'done something'. An explanation of double negatives was lost on them.

The "he's a diabetic" comment reminded me of one I hate. It's " he was diagnosed with diabetes". NO - it's the diabetes which is the diagnosis, not the patient. I think this one has gone too far to be reversed now, as "he was given a diagnosis of diabetes" is too long for the modern short attention span and "he has diabetes" is not pretentious enough.

You're really, really on the ball there, Dobbie.

How about the word "really" being overused and repeated, (as in something is really really brill etc.). This is one word in the wrong place that can produce steam from hubby's ears.

It's "Eats, shoots and leaves" - needs the comma to make the point!

Uh, oh! Hoist with my own petard. There's a missing question mark in my last comment, albeit at the end of a rhetorical question.
Where's my red pen?

A quick scan of the posts in this thread, shows that most of us blame the education system for the breakdown in correct grammar and usage. Yes! As a school governor for many years, I used to take part in job interviews for which I had to read the candidates' letters of application. Even for English posts, the misuse of apostrophes was pretty much endemic and I've even seen the 'had of', which is bad enough in speech but a crime in writing.
However, who is it who taught these young teachers? Was it by any chance our generation, seduced by the now discredited fashion for 'free expression'. Now that the National Curriculum allegedly puts a greater emphasis on correctness, who is to teach our grandchildren?