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Pedants' corner

The Oxford Comma

(56 Posts)
thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 07:47:08

Best ever example in favour thereof

For those whose lives have not yet included arguments about the use of the Oxford comma, it's the comma in a list after the word 'and' thus, for instance: What one needs to make coffee: ground coffee beans, water, water heater, and jug/coffeepot.

I nearly added mug/cup, but of course one doesn't need a mug or cup to make coffee wink

Lona Wed 11-Dec-13 08:10:20

So, does that mean that it's a good thing then?
I often use it but I always feel guilty. I don't remember learning about it in grammar lessons.

Lona Wed 11-Dec-13 08:11:34

Yes, of course, your link makes that clear smile

janeainsworth Wed 11-Dec-13 08:16:56

I was very grateful when Absent introduced me to the Oxford comma, shortly after I joined Gransnetsmile

Kate13 Wed 11-Dec-13 08:41:25

So should you use it or not? I didn't go to Oxford.... grin

JessM Wed 11-Dec-13 08:59:25

Well that is just crappy writing of a tweet isn't it. A full stop would have removed the potential for laughing at a their journalistic incompetence.
I would go a long way round the block to avoid putting a comma anywhere near an AND unless circumstances were a lot more constraining than this example. grin

Soutra Wed 11-Dec-13 09:04:24

Oh goody!! This one could run for pages if we weren't all so busy tchgrin

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 09:16:20

Oxford University Press uses it in lists of words in dictionaries. I think that's where it comes from. Maybe not OED but certainly in what is fondly known as Noddy (New Oxford Dictionary of English – Oxford's answer to Chambers).

Elegran Wed 11-Dec-13 09:32:00

I use it quite often and I did not go to Oxford either. It is useful where the three items (or more) are not absolutely exactly parallel, it make a sort of pause.

I do sometimes look at it and feel guilty, though.

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 09:43:35

I never feel guilty using it because the most linguistically pedantic person I've ever known, who was one of the Noddy editors, introduced me to it. If she says it's proper, it is.

She wasn't Big Ears, the Big Chief editor, but she was one of the hemi-demi gods.

shysal Wed 11-Dec-13 09:48:07

I was educated in Oxford, but have never heard of it. Perhaps, being a scientist and not particularly interested in grammar, I missed it. I have never used a comma when finishing a list with 'and'. In fact it was drummed into us at school that a comma should never be used.

whenim64 Wed 11-Dec-13 10:04:08

I like anomalies like this and will happily split infinitives and use the Oxford comma when it suits me, if it makes the sentence read more clearly and represent what I mean. My colons and semi colons sometimes get swapped to suit, too! grin

ffinnochio Wed 11-Dec-13 10:32:16

This is my first introduction to the Oxford comma. Hello. smile

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 12:04:39

shysal, that's why it's a bit of a big deal among pedants. I think we probably all had it drummed into us that it was incorrect to put a comma after penultimate item in a list that's part of a sentence.

Now it's no longer incorrect but pedants do like to argue such fine points as if it mattered wink

Lona Wed 11-Dec-13 12:27:44

Phew! Just the apostrophe to worry about now wink

LizG Wed 11-Dec-13 13:01:01

I am with you on this one JessM? Lona that made I tchgrin

whenim64 Wed 11-Dec-13 13:15:54

Absolutely NO room for manoeuvre on apostrophes, Lona! grin

What a finicky lot we can be! grin

ninathenana Wed 11-Dec-13 13:48:14

bags am I being thick?
Your OP underlines "after the word and' and then gives an example of a list with a comma before 'and'

I too had it drummed in to my head that a comma before 'and' was a major no,no. But I'm happy to be told otherwise.

rockgran Wed 11-Dec-13 14:25:34

I think it means a comma is acceptable if the last thing in the list is actually two or more things which could contain an "and".....

for example -

"Go and stay, up and down, red and blue, and small and large."

I suppose it's all to do with clarity.

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 15:00:18

No, you're not being thick, nina. I expect it's a typo on my part. Here's a list with the poxford comma:
Today i have imbibed and ingested some dates, some coffee, some bread with butter and marmalade, more coffee, and a flapjack.

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 15:01:29

Obviously hadn't had enough coffee when I typed the OP smile

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 15:03:10

Poxford isn't a typo and neither is the smal i.

thatbags Wed 11-Dec-13 15:04:06

Well, the small i was actually but I did see it and couldn't be arsed to change it.

Mishap Wed 11-Dec-13 15:16:27

The so-called Oxford comma is appropriate when it helps to clarify the meaning as in:

- Here are flour, butter, eggs and sugar and plans are afoot to make a cake.
- Here are flour, butter, eggs and sugar, and plans are afoot to make a cake

Icyalittle Wed 11-Dec-13 18:24:38

Yes, yes, yes. [irritated noise] mishap makes it perfectly clear. The issue only really arises IMHO where the 'and' is joining two different thoughts, rather than items in a list. I hate, really hate, inadequate commas, used to separate sentences though. I have been known to eliminate job applicants for that ...