Lay and lie….

Accompanied by a picture of a chicken I hope?
I agree, though, 🐓 🪺

Or do they expect you to join in??

Wondering if they got mixed up with love-in! 😉

Hope they didn’t mean lay out - a once in a lifetime event!
X

American usage from 18th Century (so presumably British usage before that?):

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

I don't lay myself down; I lie down. Myself can be stuck in if anyone wants.

Georgesgran

Hope they didn’t mean lay out - a once in a lifetime event!
X

Was it one of those long floaty white Victorian-type ones?

Baggs

I don't lay myself down; I lie down. Myself can be stuck in if anyone wants.

No it can’t Baggs
To lie is an intransitive verb whereas to lay is transitive ie needing an object, hence I lay myself down to sleep.
You can lay a carpet you can’t lie it.

Just what I was going to say, Maw.

I don't have any problem confusing them because the German differentiates and there is no way you can mix them up there.

"Legen" is pronounced "Lay-gen" and can only be used in conjunction with an object (including, of course, a reflexive pronoun). It describes a movement.

"Liegen" is the same sort of word as "stehen", to stand, sitzen, "to sit". They are intransitive and do not require an object. In fact, they just can't have an object, and stand alone.

Ich liege (I am lying (down)) is a complete sentence.
Ich lege (I am laying) requires something to finish the sentence.

Perhaps I didn't emphasise the idea of "movement". If you are laying something somewhere, it - and you - are moving.

If you are lying, sitting or standing, you are static, not moving.

Thank you JackyB in that respect French and German are more straightforward with clear reflexive verbs.
However the transitive/intransitive distinction should be enough. Sadly I fear it's too often a lost cause.
I hadn't appreciated how many people have little grasp of grammar or spelling (apart from tomato's potato's etc at the greengrocer's) until I started using social media like Facebook!

The humble apostrophe has a whole new life in the modern world Maw

I think some of the confusion comes because ‘lay’ is also the past tense of ‘lie’ so you could say ‘I lay down last night’ and it would be correct.

My favourite to help differentiate the two verbs (only in the present tense though) is ‘even ducks don’t lay down’.

And the past tense of “lay” is “laid” as in “my hens laid three eggs last week while my cat lay in the sun.”
It’s hardly rocket science is it?

No Maw it’s not, but I don’t know whether grammar is taught in schools now (though my daughter assures me it is)

Me too, Maw.
I can lay myself down on the sofa for a nice little zizz any time.

Baggs

American usage from 18th Century (so presumably British usage before that?):

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

Correct British usage as "lay" is used with an object, which should always be the case.

Here I (subject) lay (verb) me (object).

Gramatically the same as" I lay the book on the table." Or for that matter as "Hens lay eggs."

"Lie" does not take an object, so "I lie down for a nap in the afternoon" is correct where "I lie me down" would most definitely be wrong.

I think one of the problems is that for some years both primary and secondary teachers have been the product of a system which was, shall we say, relaxed about grammar.
As a HoD and Head of House in my teaching career, one of my “jobs” was checking the termly or annual reports teachers had written. It was often an eye opener!
And in my MFL department I can remember inspired and gifted teachers among my colleagues who nevertheless sometimes floundered teaching French and German grammar because they lacked that foundation in their own language-English.
Finally, while firmly astride my high horse my particular hate is people who speak in public- from politicians to local “dignitaries” or pundits, who try to sound more erudite by using “fancy” words - and all too often the wrong one.
Time to revisit “Acyrologia” ?

I hate this too maw 🙄

Thank you for the acyrologia, maw. Hilarious. I taught German and French at a secondary school in Hampshire. In our MFL department we often had visits from other subject teachers who wanted to check grammar points with us. When I started to learn English at the age of 10 the first book we were given was a book of English Grammar. I still have it. My English husband said he never had a grammar book. And he was in a grammar school...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I forgave Bob Dylan more than fifty years ago…

Lay lady lay
Lay across my big brass bed

I love the acyrologia! But exactly how many errors does it contain.....? I can't be sure I have found them all, so is there an answer sheet?

Chestnut

I love the acyrologia! But exactly how many errors does it contain.....? I can't be sure I have found them all, so is there an answer sheet?

*

I would like to see that, too. I am grinning from ear to ear after reading it but I bet I missed some. When you "hear" it in your head, some may seem right only because they sound right and the flow of the text lulls you into accepting the malapropisms.