Awful weekend.

No one is judging you - we understand how difficult this transition can be. But you will get there.

Ginette; I'm a few years ahead of you..children have left home, having families etc. But can I just say I am in a sort of similar/parallel type situation at the moment [mainly as a result of putting my children before everything else from the minute they were born]. I feel lonely, isolated and rejected and I KNOW exactly how you feel and I'm sending you a big hug and I wish we lived close by by to each other because I could give you that hug in person. I totally understand how you feel as I can't stop crying.

There is light at the end of the tunnel. I think we have all been there- I shed a few tears when my son went to university- not that I let him know!
It is the 'empty nest syndrome'- you have had a purpose in life and it has now gone. ( or gone in the way it has been for all those years). You need other purposes. Easier said than done, but it will come.
Don't be too tough on yourself. Start with very small changes.

Tegan for you too. When my DD (an only child) left home I felt bereft. She didn't go far, about 4 miles away and was constantly visiting, meeting me after work, coming to theatres/cinema/meals with me. We would chat on the phone for hours. Even after she had her own daughter, she was constantly here with our DGD. We would shop and go out for days. When I retired 5 years ago I couldn't wait to have more time for all of this but it suddenly stopped. I'm not sure what happened. She met a new set of friends and they have taken priority. It took me a long time to come to terms with it as I felt rejected and lost and not good enough any more. I am trying to 'go with the flow' and get on with my own life with my DH and my sisters and friends. Its not easy though. We almost fell out over it at one point but it's not worth it so now I keep quiet and paint my smile on.

I am sorry that you are sad Tegan - and Katy that must be hard when she is nearby but has moved on in other ways.

I am sure these are not intentional rejections - young people get swept away on the excitement of opportunities

I am lucky to have OH here and I try and remind myself sometimes how he was everything to me and we really wanted to be alone! - focus shifts with the arrival of children, but we are trying to shift it back again.

We have to make a big adjustment from being the lynch pin of the family to a very different role. It is tough - but we can do it.

I agree Mishap no they are not intentional, not at all. Sometimes we are good at convincing ourselves that they are though!

It is hard when they no longer need you, but sometimes they boomerang back and when they have done that a couple of times you could be quite relieved when they finally move out.
I always think it is sad to hear about 'children' in their 30s and 40s who still live at home with Mum (and/or Dad).
Watching 'Wanted Down Under' this morning (half-heartedly as I did something else I hasten to add!) I was struck by the mother of the girl who wanted to emigrate saying 'She breathes in, I breathe out, we are so close'. I thought that sounded suffocating for the poor girl.

It's when they don't want you but they then want you when it suits them at the same time wanting other people who aren't there for them at the drop of a hat. Which makes you feel a bit of a fool. And you want to not drop everything for them when that happens but you do because it is 'what you do'.

Agree with Anya and rosequartz about the boomerang bit.
It is not difficult to see the pluses of them not being around full time, once they have boomeranged a bit!

Ginette, I too wont be judging.
Can I say, and perhaps I have got this a bit wrong, but I am sensing that just by saying you are alone that you feel in part alone because of your husband.
Fortunately I was not in that position once all the children left.
And I should imagine that that is actaully plaing a large part in how you are feeling so low right now.
We will help you all we can.

Hi, I'm back, I went into hiding because I thought I was a little strong on the last post I made. I am feeling much better now though, so thank you for all your wonderful comments. It reassuring to know that you are there for support and I will gain from it and carry on.

I understand Ginette and Tegan too because I have been there when my daughter left for university some eight years ago now. I pined for her, was jealous of others spending time with her, told her I was upset. It carried on for years, which now I wish it hadn't. Not because of how she treats me now, but that it really did waste my time. I achieved nothing from it. I know you have to have some emotion of them leaving but for years? I think I made her too close to me over her time at home. I depended on her too much, both the children, putting them well above my ex husband, their dad. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it? If only I could rewind the clock. I've said yes to anythng and everything they wanted, only learning now not to. But too late in some cases.

No, my son is not and has never smoked anything, not even a cigarette in his life. He hates the things so he wouldn't smoke pot, and he would tell me if he had. He hasn't taken any other drugs neither. He hardly likes drinking alcohol. He isn't like that really, he's a bit of a nerd. (In the nicest possible way.) He can be lovely, as said in other posts, but is like Jekyll and Hyde, lovely one minute and awful the next. Sometimes in a split second.

He was abandoned by his dad on the doorstep of our house on his 8th birthday. He has never seen him since. He has no clue why. His sister left for uni the year after, not having much to do with him once she left after them being really close and still nothing after I asked her to come visit/text him/e mail/phone but no response. He got assaulted five times at age 11 in first year secondary from September intake until leaving the year in July. We decided then to home school, joint decision, and so did so for the next four years. After the home school department came out for last checks in the May before he should have left that year and said that they would not be coming back, he became very depressed. This lasted for some time until he started college. He then had to sit his Maths and English GCSE as he had not acquired these while home schooling (the cost for private exams was too high being on benefits). Then this last year from September last year he has started on AS levels but is struggling with his Maths. So he will not go to University until next year, a year later than he should have done really.

He is very socially awkward and I had him tested for Autism/Aspergers at CAMHS (Children and Adolescent Mental Health Service) but they said there was nothing wrong with him. I do think he is on the low end of the spectrum but their assessment lasted all of five minutes! (Or the length of a then cigarette!). So that was that. He had had some counselling, about eight sessions with Think Positive. He really didn't want to do it and I don't think he got anywhere with it. After eight sessions they said he was ok now and that he didn't need to go again. Oh, fixed now, is he? Good, ok then.

He has been difficult, from day one. On my birth notes it says that "mum prefers to cuddle baby" overnight. Baby would not go into the cot no matter what. He got the nickname Velcro Kid. He slept in with me for four years. I argued and tried to get ex husband to help me get him into his cot/own room for all those years and he was not willing to help a jot. He just got his sleeping bag and slept on the settee. (I wonder how I coped now looking back.) Frustration was not in it. It eventually broke us, well, along with the violence he hammered down on me.

Someone mentioned my parents being disciplinarians. Not really. My mum wanted all the attention herself and got it and my dad was just there. They argued and fought most of their married life, violent rows, blood over walls, everything. My brother and I were like pawns in a game. My sister was born when I was 15, my baby brother dying when I was 14 after living for 12 hours. It was horrendous as my sister needed open heart surgery at one week old and then got a life/death infection. Luckily she is now 35 years old, but as siblings we are all scarred by our upbringing. My brother and sister see my mother, I see my dad. At least we are still caring for them both.

I have had abuse, therefore, since I was a kid. In my marriage too and also with my daughter trying to get money out of me, lying, manipulating me etc. I am up to the back teeth with it and now just need a quiet life. I have contacted his headmaster and he is phoning me on Thursday for a meeting to sort all this out. The e mail was as long as this post, sorry. Maybe we can help my son to sort himself out.

You have said about leaving him to do his own washing, cooking etc. He does do this. He is very good at practical things, even decorating, laying carpets etc. He won't starve when he does leave. It's the emotional side that is the problem, which I think comes from his dad leaving him. But I will not be a verbal punchbag for this any more. He needs to sort it with him or get it out of his system another way. These fathers do not know what they cause when they have no contact. It's spineless of him to treat him this way. All because he re-married and she pulled his strings. She is one nasty jealous wife. But then he should put his child first, and tell her he is seeing him regardless. Spineless.

I shall go now, give you all some rest. I booked a weekend away on my own, well, with doggie. To a friend's apartment who is a lovely woman, so Tia Maria and coke and a catch up here I come. I also got taken out last night by my lovely brother. We have both been poorly over Christmas and have not seen each other for a good while so it was great to have a much longed for chat. He has been my best friend for all my life. And i met up with some friends last week and we are off to the cinema to see Wild next week. So as I am recovering, I will get out more.

I do thank you all for your concern, I am very touched by it and it has made a huge difference to me. Thanks buds. Xxxxxxxxxx

I'm going to see Wild next week ruby; let me know what you think of it. Have a lovely time! xx

Hope you have a lovely break! I am sure that the answer is open up your own life to more opportunities.

Phew, what a life Ruby!

Have a wonderful break. I'm sure it'll do both you - and your son a power of good.

ruby You sound much stronger in your last post. Good for you, enjoy your break, keep seeing your friends and your brother, and stay positive.
Good luck ((hugs))

This is what I would do.
Though, it is very hard to be able to know exactly what is going on from a few posts on an internet. Hard, if not impossible really.

I would try and listen carefully to your son. See if you can figure out what he is really thinking.
Ask him to write things down if necessary? Even if they are hurtful to you?

It sounds like, underneath, he has good behaviour. It may be buried, but it sounds like it is there.
One question, do you think that he has gone through his teenage years fully yet? Some lads that I know, dont really seem to until about 24 years old. I am not sure why. I think sometimes they have a lot of issues to work through, particularly if their childhood has been difficult, which your son's has been.

Also, I would google things about abandonment. It may give you more ideas about how your poor son is feeling.

Sorry if this post sounds like it is all about your son and not you. But if your son eventually feels happier, you will a bit too.

Hope you have a lovely time next week.
And I hope you can offload a bit to your brother and friends if it is appropriate.
And offload on gransnet anytime you feel like it!

Right now, he may need some space.
He is 18 with new opurtunities.
He has friends talking about all sorts of things.

This may not be quite the right moment for him to open up fully about his emotions. That may have to wait a little while.
But in the meantime just mainly listen to things he says.

As regards your daughter. You may have a trickier job there. She has been gone a long time, and isnt getting better in her behaviour.
You have said yes to everything she wanted. She has been conditioned that you will say yes to everything she asks for. So it is a shock to her that you are now saying no.
I think I would explain to her [if you havnt already]. lovingly and gently, that you regret saying yes to her for however many years.
That you will not be doing that in the future, but that does not mean that you love her any less.
It is possible that she thinks that no means you love her less?

It is hard not to make one's children the centre of one's life when they are at home, but they are an important part, not the only factor in it, and one does them no favours by indulging them, does one?

I have found (my DC are all in their mid to late forties) that they may become your friends as well as your children, but it is not a given. They need to have their own social circle, and find out how to live life their way. "Roots and wings" as the adage goes, are the best gifts we can offer them.

Ruby you sound as though you actually have a good grip of things.
I hope the meeting with the headmaster is constructive and he's able to suggest ways of helping your DS who sounds a good lad at heart.
Good that you had a good time with your brother and I hope you have a lovely weekend. There's nothing like the comfort of women friends

Wow Rubylady. There is a lot more information in your last post that we didn't have before. I think I'm changing my opinion of your son. I think, to a large extent, he will grow out of this in time, but he's going to need a lot of support from you. It does sound as though he's on the outer edge of the Aspergers spectrum. He has come through a lot, and I now have a lot of respect for him. He is still slogging on, trying to make a decent future for himself. That is so good.

I think he is still going to need a lot of background support from you. You need to put all the stuff in your own past firmly behind you, and just continue being there for him. I'm sure you praise him for the effort he is putting into his education. I think that is very important. You will just have to take the knocks he hands out, for the time being. Stay calm and be the grownup. He is still your child. He is still your responsibility. Keep on trying to help him. Don't ever give up on him. Sure, try to enjoy your own life, but he still needs, and deserves, to be the most important person in your world. It's hard, but that's the way it is.

Very best wishes.

I would add that you do sound a very good mum. he is lucky.

I would make that a medal if I could.

I had my DC very young (18 when I had DD) so we had never been without children until the last one went off to university. We'd always had an active social life, and were both working full time, so, in a way life was much easier! Yes, I missed them too, but we and they were happy and busy, and holidays were hectic and great fun - I never knew how many would be living with us / passing through. You, and they, move through these phases side by side, not co joined.

We loved watching them flourish, take off round the world, settle down, produce wonderful (of course!)l DGC and are now seeing the first DGD, 18, off doing Voluntary Community Service in her gap year. She has the best relationship ever with DD, but both knew it was time to go.

He came home from college today and said that a teacher told him that he can leave home once he turns 18 in May and that she deals with this sort of thing, so that is in his head now. I wanted to have him here, to sort out the aggression and set him out into the world where he can have good relationships with anyone. If he leaves now or May he solves nothing. Stupid teacher.

It would be better for me for him to go now, it would mean I have less stress and so could get my health back onto some sort of even keel and once I had sorted out finances then all would be somewhat better than having someone keep putting me down and saying awful things every week or so. I could maybe find a partner and feel that my home will not be disrupted and feel embarrassed if he was around kicking off. What man wants to be with a woman where her 17 year old is aggressive? I'd have enough trouble getting into another relationship myself without his problems too. (I mean with insecurities, health problems etc.)

Does anyone know if 18 year olds still at college can claim benefits of any kind including housing benefit?

He comes into some money for his 18th birthday but says he won't use that as it isn't the government's business! He has a lot to learn. He also thinks that any money my ex is paying me (through CSA) would then go to him instead along with his child benefit. Really?

rubylady, if a teacher at college has really told your son that, and it is not just that he has been listening selectively (as they do) then she is indeed very foolish. Do try not to get sucked into his thinking on this. I think that if your son wants to stay in education it is completely unrealistic for him to think he can leave home. He will not be entitled to any benefits to allow him to do so, and he will have to support himself. So I would just treat this calmly and tell him that if that's what he wants to do then fine, he'd better start looking into how he will support himself and where he will live. If he's old enough to move out he's old enough to research all that by himself. Give him the message that you love him and would prefer him to stay at home but you are not going to fight him over this. I would also have a word with the headmaster about the information your son is being given at school.

I know there would be some advantages for you if he left, as you say, a quieter life and a chance to meet a partner. But it also comes across from your posts how much you love your son so I think you would still be worrying about him wherever he went and the problem would not go away for you. You really are on a roller coaster ride with him at the moment - step off if you can and let him get on with his dramas by himself.
((hugs))