Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 4

Anya Has anyone said that? I haven't.

On the fallout, I told her I was always there when she was ready to talk. I have never closed the door to her.

Hello ladies. I've seen the other thread you started rubylady and responded. I'm so pleased you posted on here too as I know we'll all understand how terrible this is for you. I really do think it's bad of your brother not to tell you something if only to put your mind at rest. OMG these abandoning children are so cruel, I still can't believe what we and all of you have been through and continue to go through.

The physical manifestation of emotional trauma is really quite scary. Do you remember Yogagirl and Celeb my poor DH spending the day in hospital when we were in Aus. last year with a suspected heart attack? I was going to say that I'm pleased you've had the all clear Celeb, which of course I am, but it makes meto think of the effects your estrangement from Tor is having on you so I'm sending you a BIG ((((hug))) and wish I could give it to you in person.

Goodness Yogagirl fancy seeing your ED after just finishing your letter to her. I hope if nothing else you feel better for writing it. I've written one too, not emailed it and don't know if I will but it was very therapeutic writing it. It suddenly occurred to me that know one's ever told him what they think of what he's done and what they think of him for doing it, so I thought I would.

It's not nasty but the subject matter prevents it from being loving; I have ended it by telling him I love him and always will. I would much prefer to say all that I've said (if I send if of course) to him directly, but he'd never agree to meet up with me because he knows I wouldn't shy away from the truth, even though he makes such a monumental effort to do so him self.

Thanks for sharing the responses to your letter Celeb. It must be terrible for a child to die, to know you'll never see them again, well not in this life but I can't help but think the pain of those parents is no greater than ours. Our children have deliberately walked away from us, and in many cases told terrible lies to try and justify their actions. There's no guarantee that we'll ever be reconciled with them; we didn't get the chance to say goodbye either, at least that would have been something.

Sounds like the bday celebrations are getting off to an early start Celeb have fun.

Apologies for the long post.

Yes, Ruby the above post has just said being estranged is as bad as losing a child.

No it is not!

Just seen the last posts on the previous page and was ratherto see your last post Anya. No one has ever said they'd have preferred it if their estranged child had died. It's sometimes, and perhaps understandably assumed, that the grief bereaved parents experience is harder to bare than that of the abandoned parent. After all, while a child still lives there's always the possibility that they'll return but what when there's no possibility, when you have to live with the knowledge that you'll never hold your child again, hear the sound of their voice, have them call out 'mum' and 'dad' when they walk in to your home, not because they've died but because they simply don't want you any more.

Please don't under estimate the extent of our pain, suffering and grief or the extent of our EC cruelty.

Yes Anya, because when your child cuts you out of your life, when you're estranged you have lost them. I don't know what it's like to lose a child through death but I do know what it's like to lose one through estrangement.

I'm not even going to argue the point any more.

No-one is underestimating the pain of estrangement, but those whose child has died will be saying exactly the same - don't underestimate our pain.

It is not only the pain and loss to the estranged parent/grandparent. There is also the pain to bear of knowing that the child suffered pain and fear, and not being able to do anything about it.

Losing a child to someone else is NOT exactly the same as losing one to death.

It's a shame you made the point in the first place Anya.

I'm not even going to respond to that either.

Anya

"I can't help but think the pain of those parents is no greater than ours"

A pity THIS point was made. I have sympathy for those who are estranged from their children. I have even more sympathy for those who have watched their children die.

It is not a competetion for goodness sake.

It is quite simple the tragic loss of a child through death is not deliberately done to hurt. However a child choosing to cut you off is deliberate.

Our neibor sadly lost their son to cancer aged 20. He was kind and understanding and felt our pain was harder for the above reason.

Yes smileless we have lost our children and in the most painful way possible they cut us off without any preamble or discussion or chance to out anything right.

In my case my daughter had done it time and time again, cutting me off, until I gave in and sorted things out again for us to be ok. Only this time she overstepped the mark and I was determined that if she wanted to make up, it was up to her to do so. I was fed up of being walked on, lied to, cheated out of money, manipulated, left feeling that she really did not care about me or her brother. He, today, has disowned her. He said, one way or another, she has chose not to tell us what has gone on with cancelling the wedding or if it had gone ahead, she wouldn't have cared we weren't there or she would have sorted the rift and invited us. He's a very logical person. But when someone hurts him, he will cut them off.

It isn't a competition. I do hurt and have done for many years as the separation has been coming for some years now, slowly. But a family member died young and I would not like to be in their families shoes for anything, especially her mum. Like I said before, at least I thought she was getting on with her life and was happy, I could live with that, being estranged from her, even though it is on my mind daily. I still live or lived in hope of the penny dropping and her coming to see me. Maybe it will happen, maybe she will tell me why the wedding was cancelled one day but, due to my physical health but also and more importantly sometimes, my mental health, I am not going to dwell on it anymore. I am not a mind reader. I cannot know what happened without being told. I have myself to look after. I am not being hard, my dad and other people in the past have said I am far too soft but I have to put me first now, she is old enough to know when she is hurting me and to do something about it.

to all suffering. Xxx

Was it starting to feel like a competition?

Yes, that's exactly why I chose to opt out.

What a truely horrible thing to say Anya I'm shocked! I came on here to find out how rubylady is today, no one on here has said such a terrible thing, you are a cruel women to come on here and say such a heartless untruth, shame on you!!!!
I will now read the other posts...

rubylady it's good your EstD didn't marry yesterday, that means you didn't miss her wedding day:-) It's more likely the wedding was cancelled due to the couple falling out and not to illness. Hope you find out soon and that it all turns around for the good of all
smileless so you too have written a letter, I haven't sent mine yet, it just keeps getting longer & longer
I didn't get to say goodbye to my beloved GC or D, didn't hold their hand and say "I love you with all of my heart & soul" they were all ripped from me without my even seeing them. The pain is never diminishing, my heart doesn't beat properly anymore as it is so awash with sorrow. For the first year I contemplated ending my life several times a day, the sorrow & pain of lossing my precious beloved D&GC in such a cruel way and for no reason was just too much to bare! I have heard from a mother who lost one child to God and the other to estrangement, and she said estrangement was far more painful! It's impossible to convay the agony of knowing your D&GC are living just 5mins down the rd and you are not allowed to see or know how they are because her nasty husband and his mother (no relation to my precious GD what so ever) say so, because they are jealous of the love and special bond we had before they came along :'( :'( :'( :'(

Please explain yourself * yogagirl* as I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about

You will if you read your posts Anya I am pretty shocked and suprised too.

It will get easier yogagirl in some ways I promise you.

WE HAVE TO keep hope alive and focus on wonderful things we do so still have. Interesting that I too was told same by our neibor when we tried to offer support on Tragic loss of their son, he had seen Tor since a child grow up and knew all we did for her and truly felt our grief was the greater one to have our only Granchild ripped away and only daughter as you said yogagirl no chance to say goodbye or even in our case find out what we have done wrong!
this thread is a great support to many and there is no need for unkindness on it or indeed any other thread.

I've re-read them and there's nothing there that deserves such venom and vitriol.

But I won't respond in kind. I am sorry for you all - and please don't take that the wrong way.

Off out for the day

So you haven't sent your letter yet either Yogagirl. I don't know if I'll send mine I think the help comes in the writing, putting it down on paper and in so doing taking it out of yourself. If I don't send it I might leave a copy of it for him in my will.

I remember the first time I posted on the COOTL thread in AIBU. You and Celebgran responded so quickly and for almost 3 years we've shared our fears, pain and laughter with one another and other lovely ladies too. Over time I've seen how far we 3 have come. I for one never expected that I'd ever again experience happiness and content but now I do.

Jealousy has torn our family apart. As parents we've been blind folded, bound hand and foot and gagged; prevented from doing the most natural thing in the world, from caring for and helping our children.

I too came on here to see you are rubylady. I'm sure if something of a serious nature, an illness or accident had happened to bring about the cancellation of the wedding you'd have heard. It's more than likely that there's been a fall out between your ED and her intended. You do need to put yourself first, we all do; ourselves, husbands, wives, other children, our families and friends who've shown such love, care, compassion and understanding. It isn't hard or wrong.

You're absolutely right Celebgran "this thread is a great support to many and there is no need for unkindness on it or indeed on any other thread". I come on here to find support and comfort and to give the same to any who need it. This thread was established in 'Relationships' because the fact that COOTL was in AIBU was taken by some as an invitation to criticise posters and it was suggested it be moved to avoid such posts in the future.

I spent a lot of time explaining and justifying my posts and the posts of others in COOTL and have no intention of doing so on this thread. We are sharing our pain and experiences not competing with any one else and as this thread is no longer on the AIBU forum, I see no reason why anyone should feel the need to come on and say if they think we are.

No-one has criticised anyone, except for yogagirl saying that Anya had said something horrible.
Anya merely said that she disagreed with those who said that the pain of estrangement was as bad the pain of losing a child who had died. That is not being unkind in any way, and anyone is free to post on any thread on Gransnet and express their opinion.

I think this comparison is particularly odious. It's like comparing the pain of someone dying from a heart attack to the pain of someone dying from lung cancer. The two are completely different and irrelevant to each other.

Celeb, Smileless and Yogagirl you have all written at great length about what your pain feels like.

I will tell you what happens when a grandchild dies. In some cases it is a sudden death and the shock and pain are immeasurable. In others, the child is ill for months and the parents and grandparents go through the trauma of watching their beloved child suffer months of agonising treatment.

The child is lost - for ever, the parents and grandparents wonder what would have happened to that life and grieve for the child who never started school, never had friends, never fulfilled theirpotential and never got to enjoy all in life that we take for granted. The grandparents have to cope with their own grief, and the pain of seeing their children's grief.

They carry this burden for the rest of their lives, but I have to say that the people I know who have suffered the loss of a child seem to do it without bitterness.

I don't know how many more months of alienation I can handle. My son has not talked to my mother, daughter or me in almost eight months. None of us know why. He did leave a birthday message for my mother a day after her birthday. But that was in May. My x husband talks and sees him and he was the one who abused him physically as a child and the reason I divorced.
The other son is my stepson who I have known for over thirty years. He has two children who we haven't seen in seven months. We don't know why he is mad except that I ran into his mother in law and she told me he has issues with his dad from his youth. So why not clear the air with a talk instead of ignoring us? It's so passive aggressive for both boys to not tell us why they are mad and to ignore us. I guess it's their issue if we don't know anything.
But my heart aches for the grandkids. We used to sit once a week. What messages are here for his boys? If you are mad at someone you just ignore them and never have a discussion? My goodness... He's a teacher. If a student acts up you have a discussion with him not ignore him.
My husband and I cry about this and I have entered therapy but apparently it isnt helping.

What a lovely, open and heartfelt post Rhinestone. Perhaps your post demonstrates that your therapy is helping, being able to talk about what's happened is often the hardest thing of all. There's a fear of being judged, that there's no smoke without fire and you must have done something.

It's still early days for you, my DH and spent almost 2 years crying so try and give it some time. It's better to have an out pouring of emotion than to keep it all inside.

I've often asked myself that same question, what message are they giving to their own children and it's a very heartless one isn't it; when you no longer want someone to be a part of your life, after they've loved and cared for you, you can just discard them, cut them out without a care. And what an example to set, what will they be able to say to their own children if God forbid they one day decide to do to them what they've done to us.

Of course your heart is breaking for your grandchildren. We only knew ours until he was 8 months old but we miss him and I know we'll miss the one due at Christmas even though we'll never meet.

There is no shame in having feelings of bitterness when your child cuts you out of your life and takes away your grand children for good measure janeainsworth and we on here would not rebuke anyone for expressing that bitterness.

This thread is for the 'Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives' it is not for the criticism and judgement of those unfortunate enough to find themselves in this terrible situation and that was not what Anya posted, you should go to the end of page 15 and read what she did put.