Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

Yfairydoll that is very well said I think it is sign or immaturity to totally cutoff loving parents and even worse it is really,evil to hurt a loving mum and dad by ripping their grandchildren away now it is calculated to cause the extreme pain.

Let,lighten up a bit excited about our new car ???

Also holiday but still worried about GD, she was eating grass in hurry today, rang vet, v helpful said better continue with antibiotics and antscidmtwice a day with us going on holiday.

Hope you okayish Smilelss, I am,like wendysue at loss to know what any of us have done that WA so awful we been cut off like this.

Enjoying glass of ??went down well with toad in hole mash and veg mmm.

Well ladies I am sending you some wine and hope you are sitting down. My DD saw my son today and got some answers. First off my ES says he just needed time away from everyone and that I worry too much and ask him questions about his life. OMG horror of horrors, hang me from a tree and whip me for caring about my child.
Then he said my ESS and his wife are mad that we don't treat everyone the same. They know I paid for a cleaning lady to come in and help my daughter. And my ESS said his wife has back problems and we didn't offer one for her. I'm so livid my head is spinning around. I gave my daughter my own money as she was pregnant and I wanted to help her. Do I need to explain what U do with my money? We gave them thousands of dollars for their wedding. Mr. R bought tons of wood and built them a patio, stairs, a headboard and a coffee table and didn't ask for a penny. My ESS asked to borrow two hundred dollars to buy his wife a computer and never paid us a dime back and my DH never asked for any. We brought 3 plane tickets for my step daughter to come in and see us and her grandparents. She lives 3000 miles away so it wasn't cheap.
And to top it off they told my son that they are adults and if they want to drink they should be able to do so. Well my ESS was in rehab years ago for alcohol and pit problems. Now he takes narcotics and was selling them to my SIL . We asked my ESS to stop so he wouldnt get in trouble.
And the final accusation was that my DH beat him when he was young. My DH laughed when he heard that. He said he never touched his daughter but that he hit his son a few times on his behind. My husband dealt with this issue with him years ago and said he was sorry if he believed he beat him but that he hit him and he deserved it. My goodness my ESS was hitting people's mailboxes with a bat. Then he got into the schools computer system to change grades. A therapist told my husband to hit him on the butt.
Lets see we have a person who takes a narcotic, drinks, and smokes pot. Just like my SIL.
So instead of a conversation we run away .
It will never be the same for me EVER!

Oh, Rhinestone, I didn't realize you and DH were estranged from both your S and your SS and family. Wow. Double pain! So sorry!

Glad DD got some information for you. I don't know what's wrong with asking ES about his life. If you didn't he might be complaining that you "don't show an interest," LOL! I guess he's just a very private person? At least, now you know that's all it is (if he's telling the truth). IMO, the best idea now is to just give him the space he wants. Eventually, I'm certain he'll miss you and reach out again. Then if you're careful not to ask him too much, it should be ok (I THINK).

So sorry about ESS' and ESDIL's attitude! It sounds as if they are the kind of people who only see what they "didn't get" and never what they did get. And no, IMO, you shouldn't have to answer for what you do with your money. I don't even get why they know you paid for a cleaning lady for DD! Not their business!

But if there are addictions involved, that, I'm sorry to say, may be what's at the heart of this and all the rest may just be excuses. I understand your confronting ESS about the narcotics, but, unfortunately, I think you hit a really sore spot. IMO, you're getting the narcotics' response (IOWs, "the narcotics are talking," not ESS). Until and unless he chooses to get help, I don't think you can expect much better. NOT your or DH's fault - it's the drugs.

It sounds like he has always been difficult/there have long since been problems in his relationship with DH. He and DH may have different ideas about what "beating" is and what it's not, but it's too bad ESS can't see that DH was trying to teach him right from wrong.

I must admit, I don't see much point in a "conversation" there - they already had one and it's clear they will never see eye-to-eye on this one, IMO. Actually, I don't see much point to a conversation about any of these issues with ESS, right now, cuz all you'll get from him are the drugs' answers. So sad and I'm so sorry. I just hope he gets help/gets clean soon.

About apologies - The way I see it, ladies, an apology has to come across as sincere or he won't help anything. So "I'm sorry for whatever you feel I did" probably won't cut it cuz it will sound hollow. The person has to be able to, yunno, name the thing they did to even begin to sound like they mean it - like "I'm sorry I tried to tell you what to do"/"broke your house rules""/ etc. or, at least, "I'm sorry I hurt you."

Same problem, IMO, with "I'm sorry but you should have..." or "I'm sorry, but you have things to apologize for, too." These are probably true, but they might sound as if they're just sort of a - what would you call it ? - lead in to blaming the other person. I don't think that goes over very well.

In fact, I think the only apology that can make it is a simple one - "I'm sorry for XYZ," maybe followed by, "It won't happen again." Yeah, IMO, the most important thing is for the other party to be assured you (general) won't repeat the offense (even if you don't really see it as an offense).

And yes, I get the idea of an apology as a means to an end - to smooth things over, to help start reconciliation, to reopen the gate to the GP/GC relationship. But it has to ring true. If it doesn't, IMO, it's no good.

No matter how much I look my post has disappeared So here goes again!

Ucan strange how you can meet someone out of the blue and end up exchanging the same stories! I've had that a few times when I've chatted to folk whilst walking my little dog.

Rhinestone I apologised without knowing what I had done wrong, I asked for a meeting to include his parents, saying I would apologise and alter my ways if they offended, no reply. I know I didn't do or say anything wrong, I know I was vey good to them, generous, kind & helpful, but bottom line is my beloved GD's stepdad and his mother wanted me and my ND out, due to their spiteful jealousy!
Your GS's ceremony will have a list of those attending and a list of those who are not allowed! sorry to say

Luckylegs you were right what you said.

Wendysue Yes drugs were a big facture, my nasty s.i.l has taken dugs since he was 13yrs old, whilst his brain was developing, so drugs definitely had an effect on his brain, made him psychotic and a pathological liar!

Fairydoll your right! I remembered a friend saying to me that "It's like your s.i.l speaks Spanish and you English, so you both will never understand each other!"

Posted the above, before I lost it again

I've been sitting so long this morning * Rhinestone* that my bum hurts I was up at 6am this morning, meaning to head to the beach early, whilst the sun shines, still home I too was called mean by my nasty s.i.l, after giving them £5,000 when they moved out from living with me into their own bungalow, I then paid and organised their wedding for them, but that's all forgotten

Pit stop to put same washing in, yes I'm getting up off my butt

Forgot to say Ucan about your bus meeting chat. I grew up with the twins next door as my best friends, the older sister my sister's bf. We lost touch when I moved to live in Africa. Then decades later my M&D moved to Leigh-on-sea and unbelievably the older sister was living on the end of their col-de-sac! Turns out the twins hadn't spoken for about 20yrs, then she fell out with both, and hasn't seen them for about 10yrs! So the twins have no idea that their older sister almost died of cancer and as she was coming out of surgery with her husband and son waiting for her, her healthy son collapsed with a heart attack and died! He was 28yrs. She asked me, if I ever saw the twins, not to tell the twins about her cancer or about her son dying!

Celebgran & Smileless
for all tonight, well it is Friday

Hello there ladies. I don't know, I'm off line for a couple of days and you all go mad putting really good posts on, so now it's taken ages to read them all and I wont be able to respond to them all in detail because I can't go to the previous page without losing what I've typed so far so I'll just have to respond in general. I deliberately didn't put in any commas so you'd know that in my head I managed to say all of that without drawing breath.

Now everyone sit down and do try to keep up. I took our house OFF the market yesterday as Mr. S. was making it increasingly obvious that no, he didn't want to move. As you can see, I wasn'tbecause we had a very similar conversation a week and a half ago. I wasand believe me that's the understatement of 2016 because I'd thought we'd got it all sorted. I'm particularlythat he'd assured me before we put the house up for sale that he would move. To be frank, he's led me down a blind alley to a dead end and I felt I had no other choice but to do what I did.

Is there an up side well yes 3 actually; i) despite arriving home looking as if he was going to his execution, Mr. S. still lives, but it was momentarily touch and go
ii) I was walking my fur babies and as I approached their house she was getting the children out of the car. She ushered eldest GS in as fast as she could to get him away from the evil GM, marched to the car to retrieve the baby, and managed to get him out so I couldn't even see him, closed the car door firmly, not quite slamming it and marched into the house. Why is this an upside? Because I bet as she closed the door she was thinking 'I'll be glad when they've moved', not knowing at that point that we'd decided to stay.
iii)They'll never know that we didn't change our minds, or should I say Mr. S. changed his mind because we were pissy about the BS email we'd received just 2 days before.

Now go makes yourselves aand when you come back you'll be able to see what happens next; I've saved the best for last.

I've got myand I hope you've got yours.

I know you apologised Yogagirl despite having done nothing to deserve the way you've been treated getting nothing but a continuation of their terrible behavior. I of course understand why some might believe that it's worth it just to open the door, just a crack, to try and salvage what's left of these damaged relationships.

I know Celeb that for more than 7 years, numerous cards, letters and small gifts have been sent none of which have ever been acknowledged and at least we got a response and for once, just for once it wasn't completely over the top with its nastiness even though it was, quite clearly, an iron fist in a silk glove.

It was going to be left unanswered because it was a load of self absorbed, self serving BS, taking absolutely no responsibility whatsoever, but then that's doing what they're so good at doing isn't it, deafening us with their silence. So a response was emailed yesterday.

It isn't an iron fist in a silk glove, it's quite simply an iron fist. He's been told, and not for the first time that we have taken responsibility and apologised for what we've done wrong but will not do so for the things we've been falsely accused of.

We've asked why, as he's constantly referring to his need to protect his family, he continues to live so close to us, reminded him of his loving and caring childhood and for the first time, have told him that he is using his children as weapons and we hope that when they become men they'll be more forgiving of the mistakes they will make, as all parents do, then he appears to be.

As you can probably tell, we are no longer trying to find a way forward as far as healing the rift goes, we are seeking to find a way forward without him. I was on another site earlier today, and the situation that some parents find themselves in where they're walking on eggshells for fear of looking, saying or doing something in the wrong way, was referred too as 'a soft estrangement' and I think that was very apt.

For what it's worth Rhinestone unless it's an open event so an invitation isn't needed I wouldn't go. It could be unpleasant for you and your GS and it would be such a shame if things got out of hand which would be caused by them, not you. It's just sowhen we know that our grandchildren are growing up and reaching milestones that we can't be a part of.

Have a good rest of the day everyone.

Wow, Smile, I didn't realize you and DH had already apologized for what you felt you did wrong - and still no relationship with the grands, etc! Seems like a bottomless pit of... I don't know what... Good, IMO, that you two are moving on without ESS and family. Sad that it has to be that way, but good that you're doing it.

I'm sorry that Mr. S changed his mind about moving. I know how much you were looking forward to it. Is he just too comfortable where he is? Or do you think he still just wants to be close by to ESS and family, even if he just catches a glimpse, once in a while.

"They'll never know that we didn't change our minds, or should I saw Mr. S changed his mind because we were pissy about the BS email we'd received just 2 days before."

Sorry but this us confusing me a little. Are you saying the change of mind was cuz of the email? Did ESS' words somehow influence DH, making him want to stay (not sure why that would be)? But that ESS and EDIL will never know it? Or that it wasn't cuz of the email but they'll probably think it was?

Anyhow (((hugs))) just lots of (((hugs)))

Yogagirl what an incredibly sad story. And one I have to say I worry about constantly. What if my ED has an accident, becomes ill whatever - I wouldn't want her to be alone but she doesn't want me that is clear. Or what if it's one of her siblings, nieces or me? I look back over the years to when she was a
ovely little girl and wonder what went wrong.
Smileless so sorry about the nasty email. You did right to tell him it straight!
I went through sending emails a couple of years ago but they just got worse and more hurtful as time went on so I ended up not sending any more and ignoring the ones I recieved.
We too had our house on the market for 2 years but it didn't sell. I realised that one of the reasons I wanted to move was that I thought it might make my ED (who was still in contact back then) more amenable to visiting and getting on with us as I live in the house that was my adult step-kids family home. She doesn't like them even though they were at school together and were friends in those days.
As for apologies I seem to have spent my adult life apologising even when I wasn't the guilty party - just to keep the peace. It doesn't work - take it from me! They just end up walking all over you and using you as a doormat!

[Penstemmon] I read what you DGC said. I worry what my GC will ask in the future about their absent Aunty + Uncle. The eldest (4) knew them when she was a toddler and loved seeing them. They have never seen the youngest, she's just a baby. So sad that they're missing out on each other. ? Sad for your situation too. There doesn't seem to be a solution to all this.

Bohemian and Luckylegs I know how you both feel. I have a lovely relationship with my youngest DD and she a nice wee family of her own now. However my eldest ED doesn't want anything to do with me or the rest of the family. I know I get on her nerves without her telling me that. Whenever I was in her company I felt self conscious and my confidence would plummet. I'm normally quite a happy confident person and never fall out with anyone. I do believe it is a control thing. But I have now made a stand and will not be controlled by her anymore. I didn't answer the last nasty text she sent me in November. My DS is in contact - however I have come to realise these last few days that he only sends me a message when he wants to rant at someone about his estranged wife (she is not a nice person I must add). He doesn't message me to ask me how I am. So I've decided to keep a low profile for a while and not message him. I am 62 this year and in the 20 years me and DH (2nd) have been together there has never been peace, except with his 2 DC and my youngest DD who all get on really well. (((hugs))) to you both

Uke, I'm just catching up with your story and I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. Since you say there has "never been peace" with your ED and DS since you've been with your 2nd DH, do you think their feelings about him could be part of the problem?

So sad about your relationship with ED. I don't blame you for backing away. Could be you both need some space for each other for a while - maybe a LONG while.

I'm sorry, too, that your relationship with DS isn't better. But it seems he's going through a lot right now. But all the more reason why I think you're right about keeping a "low profile," right now.

And I agree with the poster who said that you'll probably get to see his child more once he establishes his own visitation. Please don't expect anything from his EW - I don't think she has any intention of accommodating you.

So good that you have good relations with your YDD and DH's DC! I know it's hard to have YDD and family moving to another country, but I'm sure you'll adjust and find ways to stay in touch with each other. It will just take a little more effort and imagination. It may not seem like it now, but I'm confident you'll do ok.

(((Hugs!))) And welcome!

Smiles less, you are going to do what I decided to do before Christmas, to, make a way forward without your ES. At times I wobble about the situation I am in, but I can honestly say it is better than always walking on eggshells. You are fortunate in having a good husband and it is a pity to waste these years worrying about someone that doesn't appreciate or respect you. I am lucky that I have a lovely son and family, I would love to see more of them I know, but if I wanted anything he would drop everything and be there for me and he does ring most days. I think always watching what you say in case you trigger anger or estrangement is a form of bullying, this lowered my self confidence so much, I didn't know the real me any more. It would have been easier with my husband, but I know he would not have let it go as far as I did, his reaction would be to let her get on with mind games I am not joining in. I know you are upset about your house, but it wouldn't have really solved anything moving, just given you a new focus for a time. This way your husband is happy and you have a new start with a different attitude.☕️?By staying near by you can be the pain in their butt.

Luckylegs9 you put that so well,
Sorry smilelss?I know you're u hope to move, and I really felt it may have helped, but really no point at all in Upsetting mr Smilelss haven't our damn estranged ones done enough damage.

I was disappointed me busy Gra work today out tonight, yesterday had new fence done very pleased, (Easter storm) couldn't fit in visit with M as they were out also, never mind will see them after holiday.

Smilelss aren't you off before us?

I will be absent as looked hotel up no free wi fi?

So if can't get in contact all try be and be happy til my return and take good care.

Smilelss glad you responded and what on earth else can you say ? It is beyond cruel, and one day they will become mature enough to realise he w very wrong it is is use children as pawns and deprive them of the love and care we have to give.

I had huge headline in local paper about c tax etc ?They always print my emails gives me a buzz, on upside my brother visited yesterday out of blue, delayed us but what the hell good see him, he asked if i have any photos of our maternal grandparents I have one or two and will look them out, made me realise who will T ask as she has cut her entire family out?

Thanks WendySue DH apologized years ago about his " wrong advice" from the therapist. And you are so right that the drugs are talking. My ESS and his wife both take narcotics for " back pain" and drink and smoke. I read something that said nowadays the doctors are prescribing too many narcotics and people are getting hooked on them.
Well my daughter filed for divorce. Her husband knew it was coming and just wants " equal time" with the grandkids. This is coming from a man who my DG couldn't wake up in the middle of the night and who drinks and smokes pot after they go to bed.
I don't know where on earth my DD will live . I am so worried. She isn't working as the youngest still has one more year until school and if she did work her money would go for childcare.

Ladies I'm not trying to ignore everyone but I haven't slept in two nights because of what my ES son about the ESS and his wife.
How would they even know I sent a cleaning lady over to my DD when she was pregnant? Maybe I mentioned that my DD was having a difficult time. I don't know but they have moms and they both are teachers who both work. This is why you hold the GC hostage? My husband will not respond now and I'm at the point all I want to do is scream and tell them why they don't deserve loving parents like us. In my head I have moved on. LuckylegsSmileless**I join you now in letting go.

As far as my ES is concerned I have come to terms with his situation. He knows mom doesn't want him to be in the profession he is in and neither does grandma. We have legal medical marijuana in my state and my son got a license from our state to be a distributor. But he's still poor.
My DD told him to write me a letter explaining his need to not talk to my family so he won't be judged. We will see.
Ukecan You write a letter to your DC and tell him the truth about the estrangement and someday give it to him when he is older. Or have someone else do it.

Hello everyone. We're sitting in the bar at a Premier Inn and fly out tomorrow.

Sorry for the confusion Wendysue, no we haven't decided to stay put because of ES's email, Mr. S.'s heart was never in a move so that's why we're staying where we are. I knew he'd be more upset if we moved then I'd be if we stayed. Not that I'm not upset because I am; gutted actually. What I meant was they'll never know if the reason we're staying is because of the email and that'll drive them mad.

I'm so sorry that you've been unable to sleep Rhinestone. It's just not worth it, they're not worth it. What business is it of anyone's except yours and your husbands what you do with your money and what you do to help out family members. You've clearly done plenty for them in the past. Hold hands with me Mr. S. and Luckylegs, we'll hold on to one another and all of the lovely ladies on here, as we let them go.

I go on another site, as does Yogagirl and I read on there in reference to those who are narcissists, that the only way to win the game is to stop playing. It's so hard to do I know, but it's the only way Luckylegs.

We have apologised for the things we've done which seemed to upset them so much, small as they were, but those are never mentioned now, just the reiteration of the lies which of course we shan't be apologising for. To be honest, the thought did cross our minds to apologise, to accept responsibility for everything, to say it's all been our fault and then to beg and plead for their forgiveness which we have no right too, wait a while and then ask when we were going to be allowed to see our GC. What would they have done then I wonder, what bloody excuse would they come up with do you think, for saying 'no'.

Oh no Celeb, no wifi; how long are you away for? That's most inconsiderate of you, now we'll have to do without your lovely posts for the entire time you're away. I'll miss you; missing you all ready.

Yes, knowing we're going to be in a pain in their butts certainly makes me*Luckylegs*. Who knows, it may all work out well in the end and they might decide to move.

Gosh Ukecan 2 years is a long time to have your house on the market, so how have you felt since taking it off? Do you still want to move or have you managed to become more settled?

Hope all is well with you, your DD and precious GD Yogagirl. Well Mr. S. is going back to the bar to get me a. Being the good girl that I am I started with a , well coffee actually.

Next time I post, I'll send you some Floridian. Thanks for always being there; you're a great bunch, you really are.

Rhinestone I heard of someone writing a blog for their EGC and calling the blog by the childs name so that in the future it could be read by him/her. I need to find out more about doing that. I think we all just want our EGC to know that we love them, whereever they are.
Smileless so that you're sitting in the bar ready to fly off into the sunset! Have a lovely time.
We are actually a lot more settled now we've decided to stay put. The irony is, now that we did some alterations on the house I think it would sell now!
It was quite stressful having it on the market for so long cos you're in Limbo.
My DH heart wasn't really in it either. I don't think men like change really do they?
Apologising for things we didn't do makes them think in the future they can say and do what they like to us and we will take the blame.
Also Smileless and Luckylegs you refer to another site you go on. I haven't mentioned Narcissism before but I am convinced that this is the case with both my ED and my DS's EW. It is a very complex condition and I feel to some extent sorry for those who suffer from it but still think it is no excuse to bully family members. They would be better seeking help from professionals.
Anyway nuff said!
Happy hols you lucky people who are going away. Enjoy a break from all the troubles. X

Thanks for clarifying, Smileless! I'm sorry that ESS and ESDIL's list of complaints seems to endless. You're very wise, I think, to just move on without them.

Uke. I think this apology business is very tricky. Mom/MIL and Dad/FIL might feel as if they "didn't do" something, but AC (adult child) and CIL may still feel they did. For example, Mom/MIL might ask DIL, "Are you sure you want to do it that way?" - a simple question, that's all. But DIL might "hear" it as a criticism ("You shouldn't do it that way!"). If MIL apologizes there, she's not so much apologizing for something she "didn't do," as responding to DIL's perception of it. But maybe it's better to just let DIL know it wasn't intended as a criticism rather than apologize?

Same with mistakes that appear "small" to us - to DS and DIL (or DD and SIL) they may seem huge.

Rhinestone, I totally get how you and "grandma" feel about ES' new line of work. Just cuz something is legalized doesn't mean parents and GPs are going to be all cool about it. I think you're going to have to accept ES' new job, in time, however (if he sticks with it) since it's legal and he's an adult. Until you can find it in your heart to do so, IMO, a little "space" is good for you, as well as him. I know you miss him, but you need time to process this.

Oh wait, I forgot you said you have "come to terms" with ES' choice, Rhinestone. Glad to hear it! Then maybe if he writes you that letter, you can reply that you've come to accept it and are not standing in judgment. He may not believe you, right away, but in time, maybe he'll reach out.

Unless the prospect of grandma's disapproval keeps him away. Does her opinion mean that much to him?

Anyhow, I hope you don't lose anymore sleep over any of this. As much as you care about these guys and the GC, it's not worth risking your health. (((Hugs)))

Well said wendysue

Smilelss enjoy thenflorida sun, I a. Struggling with packing, and lunch out and ??didn't help really, realised dh needs. New shoes he hates shopping, having to manage, seems like I have way too much of everything?
POOR HUSBAND WORKED yesterday and we went out it was t best idea noisy band, and both v tired,

Oh dear will agony ever end found out today T been seriously ill, not details so we feel like going over with some flowers, expect get rejected but is a gut instinct to trynreach out both upset poor Gra worse than me.

Rhinestone no it is t worth making yourself ill but guess we do,

Yogsgirl sorry repeated as messaged you on f book?

Smilelss will pm you if you are wifi able unlike me I think will be too mean to pay ?

Oh Celeb how awful for you, to hear she's been really ill. I don't know when you'll be able to read this post as you'll be away now but of course I'm wondering how you found out, and if someone told you how come they didn't have any proper info to pass on.

Parents want to be there for their children in good times and bad but we can't if they refuse to have anything to do with us. Perhaps, being seriously ill, T could see how stupid she's been, maybe wishing her parents could be there for her and knowing that their absence is down to her.

As you say Wendysue; the whole apology thing is so complex and difficult to handle. If any parent does something of such magnitude that their children completely cut them out of their lives and the lives of their children, there's no way the parent could not know what they've done.

We've been lied about, we all have. We're not refusing to apologise for things we've done or said because we think they're making a fuss about nothing, we're refusing to apologise for things we've been accused of that quite simply never happened.

I totally agree Ukecan, trying to rebuild a relationship on a lie, which we'd be doing by accepting responsibility for things we haven't done, is never going to work out, it would be a complete waste of time and we'd spend the rest of our lives dancing to their tune and never knowing from one day to the next if we'd see them or our GC again.

Well we've had a lovely first day. Plenty of and haven't done much at all really. Sunbathed, read, swam and shopped for provisionsof course and some lovely steak for tonight's BBQ. So a nice relaxing evening ahead. You should all be in bed now, or about to go so sweet dreams everyone.

Thanks Smilelss update we found out from someone looking on her f book page and her godfather has offered drive us over today, v nervous, have written her a loving card and bought her an orchid and flowers nothing can do if she won't see us. But we felt had to try in circumstances very nervous.

We go away tomorrow fly early Thursday,

Hope your u arrived ok and enjoying sun,