Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

9.30am here in Florida so just seen your post Celeb, now my heart's in my mouth wondering if you've been, if you saw her. Dear friend, how I hope and pray that this could be the turning point for you all.

Celelb, I'm so sorry that T is ill and I hope she's better soon. But, like Smileless, I also hope this will end up being a turning point for you. Fingers crossed!

Smileless, I can't help but wonder what possesses these young people to accuse their parents or PILs of things they never did? Is it their (the young people's) imagination? Do they really believe what they're saying? Are they lying as an excuse to keep their distance. (but then, if so, that gets back to why?)? I can't for the life of me understand it! And I suppose you can't either. Once again, glad you and others here are learning to just move on.

Ladies no turning point, was horrendous, K came door with little one and shut I and drew curtains. He would t Eve take the beautiful orchid from G.

A T Godfather was fantastic taking us and being so caring and supportive. He drove us To T Work and the locum was so kind telling us T off sick etc that I started to cry, Managed hold it together and walk off, then saw her car she was at dr she drove off Gra ran up to car I feel so desperately sorry for my caring lovely husband,

Then A took us to K parents, his dad was very short, told jsmT. NEarly died, I asked why no one thought to tell us he just glared and I said would he like it if was his daughter which point he shut door, he was goin job interview admittedly and his wife was t there.

Omg I feel In Bits my daughter I still love deeply could be dead and no one would have told me, I can't put into words the deep sadness I feel it has really knocked us for 6 I left the orchid and flowers on step and we put a loving card through door but feel really is end of road now.

Have try get into holiday mood.

Oh Celebgran I am so very sorry for you. You did the right thing and tried. That's all you can do. They are beyond cruel. And what's with Karl's father? What did you ever do to him? Nasty man.
I wasn't sure what his father said to you as I didn't understand what the letters jsm meant.
So when you saw your daughters car at the doctor's was she in it? Did she see you?
I understand the heartbreak but you did what any loving and caring parents would do. I hope you and your DH won't regret it as there is nothing to regret. I too just popped in to see my son.
I'm sending you ?. You deserve them.

Only been up 10 minutes and came on, hoping against hope that you saw and spoke to her Celeb, I'm so very sorry. Al sounds lovely, how kind of him to take you and be so supportive.and a BIG (((hug))) for you and Gra.

In our case and I believe in most cases they lie in an attempt to justify the unjustifiable Wendysue. Perhaps after a period of years they do end up believing in their liesmaybe that's how they manage to live with the awful things they've done and continue to do.

After a lovely relaxing day we went out for meal, to one of our regular haunts and the waitress was so pleased to see us she gave me a hugbut Mr. S. put a damper on the evening by talking about ES and the recent emails. Of course we have to be able to talk about it, but after 4 years of going round and round in circles, I just don't want to talk about it anymore. I'm sick of it and sick of ES and it isn't helping knowing that we're not moving; guess it's going to take time for me to get over that one.

Here's some Floridianfor you all.

So sorry, Celeb! What a heartache for you and G! But, IMO, you did the right thing.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't say that. Ordinarily, I'd say to respect the space T seems to want, etc. But this is different. Your DD almost died. You would never have forgiven yourselves if you didn't go over there and try to let her know you still love her.

And who knows? Maybe if she knows you came/if she sees the flowers and the note, it will mean something to her, even if she doesn't tell K. Who knows what's been going through her mind? No matter how old we are, don't most of us kind of wish for "Mommy" when we're really sick or unhappy? She may be very glad you came through, even if, sadly, she never lets you know.

You knew it might go badly, but tried anyway. You people are very brave, IMO.

Smileless, it doesn't surprise me that it's going to take you some time to get over the fact that you're not moving. I have a feeling it will take Mr.S. some time to get over those emails, too. Perhaps at this point, it's better to let him just go on about them for a while and then change the subject? At least, then you won't have to get into a discussion of them.

Thank you so much for the sunshine! One thing I don't have on my computer is brackets, so I can't post the same. But wishing you lots of sunshine in return!

Morning Girls

Lovely sunny day Not a good idea to stay off of our page for too long as then there are sooo many posts and as Smileless has said, can't go back, so difficult to reply to all.

Firstly to Celebgran so very very sorry about your Daughter T, we have been 'talking' on messenger so won't repeat, apart from saying what a truly awful situation for you, as Wendysue has said, don't we all want our mums in times of great stress and illness [?] I really don't understand why they keep this up for years on end and not give in at times like this and except the love from their mum& dad, makes no sense for you C to try and brighten your day.

Smileless sorry you are disappointed at not moving, but I do understand Mr. S, it's stressful enough with this estrangement and then to move on top maybe in a few months you may be glad you stayed. I did what you said you contemplated; apologising for things you didn't do or say, just to end the feud and move on to being happy again, but it was met with a wall of silence, so..

I've been busy dealing with a gas leak! think the guy has ripped me off big time, but how can you tell, he didn't give me a quote, just started working outside, when the smell was inside replaced some copper piping, when it wasn't that old, stayed from 1-6.15, when I said I had to leave for work, this was after the boiler service at 9am, when I mentioned my ND thought she could smell gas, they immediately down tools and told me to call a gas fitter, gave me the number of his mate.....The gas fitter finished by disconnecting my hob, told me to get a new one and he would be back to fit. Got the new one, he now wants £140 to fit, that's on top of the hefty bill I have already paid

Luckylegs and Wendysue

Rhinestone Best thing your D getting a divorce from her drugged up husband, you can sleep easier in your bed now you know your D&GC are safe without him in the house

Celebgran and Smileless and you can both have some as you are on your holidays, have a lovely time and try not to think about Schhh

Hello everyone- I cannot make up what Im going to tell you. My SIL got arrested for illegal transport of marijuana. It may be legal in our state but you have to have it in your trunk of your car not in the front. He got stopped because his headlight was out, his license tabs expired four months and then they saw the pot. He was on his way home from drinking at a friends house. He called my daughter from jail saying he need money and for her to come get him. She said it was late and the kids were sleeping. His got his drinking buddy to come get him and put up the money. The police impounded his car. He and his friend then WENT OUT FOR A DRINK after getting out of jail.Who does that?
He goes to court to get sentenced in a week. He will have to call his parents for money that we figure will total at least $1000. My daughter signed her divorce papers and the details can now be worked out. I fear the judge will let him have overnights with my GC when clearly this man is not capable of caring for himself.
We will see.

Thanks for the flowers, Yoga! Same back to you!

So sorry about the gas leak. Hope the guy is not trying to take advantage of you. Best of luck!

Smileless, I wonder, too, why AC don't "give in" at dire times and let their parents back into their lives, at least a little. Is it stubbornness? I guess I don't know, as I could never be this way. To me, no matter how great the rift with someone, you (general) soften in times of illness, and so forth (except maybe if there's a history of abuse, but that's not what we're talking about). But I guess not everyone sees it that way.

Rhinestone, I can't get over what you told us! But I guess I really shouldn't be surprised, considering his drug usage, etc. Glad your dtr didn't cave and bring him the money. And that she just signed her divorce papers - just in time, I guess!

Hopefully, SIL will only get supervised visitation.

OMG! Rhinestone good job those divorce papers are signed, your D got out just in time, I would ask for supervised visits for the C, under the circumstances.

Just got back from a lovely lunch with my sister at Lakeside, never mentioned my estranged D, so that's how far it has gone! Went to a really great party last Saturday, their was Cabaret, champagne a hot meal for 130! and I had some Henna done on my hand, as the Indian brides have, still clearly there today really pretty.

Nice weekend all, hope the rain stops

Celebregran, it has taken me time to digest what you have been put through. It seems as if the family she as married into as taken her over. How could anyone shut the door in your face with your daughter so Ill. it beggars belief. For your sake and your husbands, keep the love in your heart, knowing you have tried everything, but move on. There is no other way, it is completely up to T to see the light, stress does that much damage to us and leaves us vulnerable to illness, you have to protect yourselves now,?

Rhinestone, you have so much to deal with, you must feel trapped in it all. They all have to find their own way, whatever it is, as moms we want to put everything right, but of course we can't. You could do with some TLC, and a hug, but I am sending you flowers instead???

To all those estranged from your children, try and enjoy the weekend and put troubles on the back burner. I am looking through holiday brochures again to escape once more. Despite looking so hard I still have not found anywhere to move to, so I guess I am staying put for a little longer, I was really determined to make a new start but it has to feel right.

It isn't easy is it Luckylegs when thoughts of moving spring to mind, especially when you think they've been laid to rest but in truth they haven't.

I thought I could stay, that I'd be able to cope if only for Mr. S.'s sake which is why I took the house off of the market last Thursday so, neither of us saw it coming when on Thursday it just came out, over lunch "I'm sorry, but I can't live there anymore, I just can't, I know I can't"and Mr. S.and maybewell he must have been although didn't say so.

I'd not been myself since we'd decided to stay and he was definitely aware that something wasn't right. So, on our return to our villa he promptly emailed the estate agent and asked her to put it back on the market, on the internet, for a slightly reduced price, but not to put the 'For Sale' sign back up.

So, we've gone full circle, back to the beginning as far as looking to move goes and now we'll have to wait and see what happens.

I got an email from my bro and he said there's been snow in parts of the UK, hope none of you have had any. It's been warm but cloudy here today, so not muchbut still enough to send some to you all. Hope there's plenty where you are Celeb,I mean, not snow and that you're able to relax after your distressing week.

Have a good Sunday one and all.

Oh Celebgran, that is heartbreaking for you. At least your DD knows you tried and you left her the flowers and card. Sounds like a very controlling family to me.
The upset and stress this is causing you both is not good for your health. My Dr told me last year when I got continuous colds and sinusitis that my immune system was low because of stress. When I was seeing the counsellor she said I could get a pretty box and put things in it for my Baby GD so that one day I could give them to her. I found a lovely box in TKMaxx and put things in for Xmas and will do so for her 1st birthday in June. It makes me feel a bit better. Could you try something like for your DD and your DGC?

Well said Luckylegs re Celebgrans situation with T, same with me, my estD's in-laws have totally taken her & my GD over, they never wanted us in the picture and finally got their wish, so tragic for my GD she had no say

Best of luck with your move Smileless you have set your mind on moving, to get a new start, away from the daily reminders, so I hope it all goes smoothly now. Enjoy your holiday with all that sunshine, it's sunny but frosty here.

Celebgran hope you are enjoying your holiday and that you are getting to grips with what happened with T, if only I had a magic wound, I would wave it in your direction and make things better for you, I really feel for you, as you know, try not to dwell on it and enjoy your hols

Smileless and Luckylegs I think when the time is right you will sell your houses and the right house will come along. The time was obviously not right for us. A month after we finished all the alterations someone phoned us privately and asked if we still wanted to sell as her son was looking for a house to be nearer to their farm. We declined, so we had our chance but feel we made the right decision to stay for now.

Smileless, I'm glad you spoke up and let Mr. S know how you feel. You listened to him, now it's his turn to listen to you. Good that he did and now the house is back on the market.

Interesting that he chose to have the agent put it back on but not put the For Sale sign up. I wonder if he's worried about ESS seeing it? Does he, perhaps, worry that ESS will take your moving as some kind of offense to him and his family? That doesn't make much sense, I know, considering that they have cut you people off. But emotions aren't always "sensible." so who knows?

Anyhow, good luck with the house sale and house hunting! Hope you get to move soon! Bet Mr. S. will be glad once you do.

Smileless, when you know for sure in your heart that you have to do something that can only be a good thing. It is the not really knowing that does the damage, you have come full circle yes, but now you know you are doing what is the best thing. Hubby will come round, perhaps inside he thinks by moving it makes everything finally finished, but it us a vain hope to keep thinking things will change. I think with me, I know I should move but all my life has been here, in happier times every member of my family and friends have stayed here, but they are like ghosts now, all gone and I sometimes think I hang on to get a bit of those days back as they were good days. When I move I know where ever I move people will see me as I am, not that young person I was. I have to come to terms with that.
Celebregran, hope you and your husband are enjoying your holiday despite the recent trauma.
Ukecan, it makes me want to cry, thinking of all the love you put in that box for your gd, why cannot they appreciate you?
Yogagirl, you sound as if you have turned a corner, is the henna still on your hand, does it just gradually date over time.
Wendygirl, I wondered why you you were interested in estrangement as you don't appear to be in that position yourself. Not meaning to be rude or anything but it does intrigue me, if I hadn't been having problems I don't think I would have ever thought to look at this post, but that is just me I guess.

Wendysue, sorry about calling you Wendygirl, it's this keyboard, somethimes it just does its own thing.

Ok about "Wendygirl," LOL, Luckylegs!

As for my interest in estrangement, I have a couple of friends in this position. Also, for that reason, I always figure, "there but for fortune..." I do my best to be a good mother-of-adults, MIL and GM. But I'm sure the estranged parents/GPs here feel would have said the same. So who knows?

Meaning "who knows what could happen?"

I do hope it won't happen to you Wendysue, but I doubt it will now. Think it is a good thing to sort things out right at the beginning when the warning signs are there, I avoided that because I didn't want conflict. I read somewhere that the only way to deal with a problem was to go straight at it and not walk round it. I think I became adept at walking round it.

Thank you Luckylegs and Wendysue. I think that being away has helped clear the murky waters with regards to moving. We both decided not to bother with a sign outside the house. TBH it doesn't really make any difference as there's no passing traffic. It's totally residential, with a culdesac opposite and the road that goes past ends in another one. Everything is available on the internet and anyone seeing our details on line could easily identify our house in the flesh, so to speak, as it's very distinctive.

What you say is spot on Luckylegs, the problem for us was he simply didn't see any warning signs until it was already too late, by which time our attempts to try and rectify the situation were totally wasted.

It's a lovely warm andmorning here in Florida. The gardeners have all but finished whizzing around on their mowers, cutting the grass; they make an awful row but the scent of freshly cut lawns is lovely.

Just a bit of tidying up to do then the sun lounger, a good book and the pool beckons. A busy day yesterday at 'The Magic Kingdom'so one of relaxation is now needed.

for you all. Hope you've plenty where you are Celeb.

Found this so interesting I wanted to share with you all:

Coping With Estrangement - Good Advice NEW
by: Anon Too!

I am a fellow loving parent and grandparent, having been painfully estranged from our adult child and grandchild for over a year.... The best advice I have seen on here, is the latest post entitled Coping with Estrangement (Anon 19th April).

We've struggled for years, trying to get this relationship right since our adult child's marriage. However, the downward spiral cannot be stopped and it was going to happen anyway, it is what 'they'(NPD's) do once they get their hooks in - as the other message said today, they destroy relationships.

There is nothing you can do about it, it was nothing to do with you, and still isn't anything to do with you (apart from who you are in your status within the family). Remember that your status can never change, even if you are estranged, no matter what these NPDs do, you are always going to be their parent/grandparent - this is karma in itself!

Everything that has happened has nothing to do with what you have said or done - even though you are totally blamed for it (it's the NPD way - one way only!) You cannot win, the more you try the worse it gets, so don't try anymore.

All you can do is as many have advised, look after yourself. Don't waste your life, don't let them destroy you. Become strong in the knowledge that you are a good person and deserve happiness. Keep strong for your loving family who will return to you one day. See it, believe it and realise it - give them nothing but love, and that is what will be returned, in time.

Spartan Life coach is excellent - so are many other experts out there. Read about it as much as you can, but try not to get bogged down and all consumed by the grief and trauma for too long. Understand what has happened, but then get on with your life, there is still a good life out there, live it the best you can.

Keep the love in your heart for them and your door open.



Apr 19, 2016
Coping with edtrangement NEW
by: Anonymous

Learn all you can about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Knowledge is power. Also, there are online counselling tools for folks who have experienced narcissistic abuse. Spartan Life Coach is a really good one and the info is free. And,yes, you are being abused.
Grandparents have legal rights, but be aware that if you seek contact via Family Court, your abusive in-law will accuse you of anything and everything.
Hopefully, your adult child will will eventually reconnect with you. Failing that, when grandchildren reach the age of 18, you can initiate contact with them and explain (without details) that estrangement was not your choice.
Be aware that Z people with NPD are dangerous. They will tape conversations, lie, and accuse YOU of things/agendas that are THEIRS.
Most of all, take care of yourself. Your mental health, your grief, your happiness. Not just for yourself, but also that you are emotionally strong and healthy should your adult child resume contact. This is crucial. You need to be bullet-proof while being loving and conciliatory all at once.
Bear in mind that divorce rates are high and their marriage may collapse someday. In that case, you may have a prodigal child situation. If so, you need to deal with your (justified) anger and pain before a re-connection takes place. You need to find the strength to be nothing but love.
None of this is your fault. There is nothing you could have done to avert this estrangement. It is the nature of this disorder to destroy relationships. It is not you. Even if you have done or said things you regret -it would have happened anyway.
Don't lose hope, but don't drive yourself nuts trying to figure things out. It is not rational and therefore cannot be rationalized or understood beyond the fact that people with npd are not in the same reality a healthy person is.
Go on with your own healing.
Shalom and blessings

I replied that it's a shame it takes so many years to learn this knowledge, that by the time you know how to try and deal with it, the loving relationship with your child and GC are all destroyed !

Smileless sounds blissful where you are, enjoy

Yogagirl, thank you for sharing that with us. Why is it the natural reation, as parents to blame ourselves for problems. What was written was very astute, I came to that decision before Christmas, I was totally spent, just thought no more, I did the best I could, put my family first, I am not a bad person and do not deserve this anymore. I can honestly say, I do not regret the decision I made, should have done it years ago. No one can tell you to do it, it has to come from yourself. What does need working on by all of us is to get that sense of self worth back, when you are told repeatedly everything that is wrong with their lives is down to you, when you see other people close to their own children and feel they must think you a bad person to be alienated from our own, it all brings you down. But your true friends know the truth, the others do not matter. I feel all this has given me a greater empathy with people. I have all the love in my heart, but will never understand when someone so close could cause such pain. I don't like to upset a neighbour and could never, ever have caused my lovely parents pain. I will look at the sites you mention for a bit of emotional backup when I need it.