Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

yogagirl...will have to watch what I say in case yet another one of my posts gets axed when all I was doing was defending us....

I remember this sort of incident happened a few years ago on here ( yes Im an old poster which left gransnet because of the nastiness on this thread at that time...) I did find that hq were very selective in what they deleted and found it all very one sided!
new posters come on to this thread stir the pot and when it kicks off leave what very sad lives they lead!

Its nice to see you back yogagirl and I hope you ill stick around..

Anyone coming onto this thread for the first time would think [rightly so] that this is a 'support page for AC who have cut their mothers out of their lives & that of their C, their mothers GC' without giving a reason^ and can freely vilify her on here, getting congratulated for it and being told 'you are doing the right thing, well done' Even from the main original posters! Our AC will be saying the same bad things about us, being congratulated for it & being told they are doing the right thing to cut us out, by the people who believe their lies about us!, just the same!

I stopped coming on here because of the terrible verbal abuse I and others were getting from lots of new posters, mostly from the now main poster on here. I am not back, but unlike the now main posters on here, I find I cannot just 'cut off'

'Why would anyone do this? No matter how hurt or angry? How do they possibly think this can help? I can't begin to fathom it?'

I wish I could tell you. I have no clue what she's achieved from this. She's lost her only child and grandchildren.

We wasn't unfair, we made more than enough effort, we saw her christmas and birthdays, she had scan pictures, photographs of DD, DH would pick her up and drop her home every week (when she didn't cancel) we involved her and included her.

I'm not sure what she thought she was getting from acting like this but from my point of view it was attention, she loved playing the victim.
She made no effort into seeing DC she would cancel all the time with excuses, silly excuses like she's changed her mind and is having her nails done instead (genuine reason) this could go on for weeks.
She'd then be annoyed and sulk if DD didn't instantly run to her and love her when she did come down. She didn't see her enough for DD to want to do that.

Id hear from people who she's spoken to how much of a help she is, how she looks After DD all the time, how she always buying them things, how shes at our house all the time and how she pays for a lot of things for us.
It was crazy. She's never done the above things, ever. She's made every situation stressful.

They have an image of what they want to be or what they should be so that's the image they show the world.
She's showed this fantastic grandparent side to the world but now she doesn't see them. Obviously it's the mean old DIL and son's fault.

We had to see a councillor just to have it confirmed that it wasn't normal behaviour and we didn't do anything wrong. We havnt made anything up, it's all true. But she then twists things to make you think you've heard it wrong or we have took ithe wrong. If you've never had a relationship like it, you can't understand it, you start doubting yourself and think your crazy.
It's exhausting.

years ago I went to see a counsellor as I was having problems with my younger daughter and the counsellor told me to let my daughter get on with her life and that I should get on with mine...should have taken her advice then I wouldnt have all this heartache!

"But you're right not to expose your children to a volatile, angry adult at this time."

I would add "irrational." IMO, notanan's mother is volatile AND irrational. What I mean is, some people can react in a volatile way to something that it makes sense or is understandable to get upset about. If not, at least, they're consistent, getting mad at the same things every time. But we can't say any of that about notanan's mother, as far as I can see. She gets mad, for example, if notanan doesn't want tea - but she doesn't consistently get mad at that, only once in a while, out of the blue. So I would go further to say, notanan, that "you're right not to expose your children to a volatile, angry, irrational, inconsistent adult at this time."

Notanan, if you haven't already, it might be a good idea for you to talk to a counsellor just to offload your thoughts and conclusions. A good counsellor won't judge or tell you what to do but they will listen and act as a mirror.

You sound a bit fed up and stuck that your mum can't change. It's not a value judgement on you, some people are incapable of change and the older they get the more set in their ways they become.

You sound like a great mum so my best advice to you is to not to be brought down by being an EC or that your mum is like she is. Keep your thinking higher, try and move past the E topic so that it doesn't keep you feeling frustrated and just focus on being the best you can be. Avoid denigrating your mum, I see lots of posts by irate EC, it doesn't help. You've done your best, if your mum does have issues, and I'm not judging her because I've only heard your side, in time you and your mum might reach a place where you can understand and tolerate each other better. It doesn't have to all be cast in stone and written off forever now. Hope and wishful thinking can be a double edged sword. Only you know how your situation really is. But you're right not to expose your children to a volatile, angry adult at this time. I hope this helps. x

Jenty, yes we do, those avenues hopefully lead us in a new direction eventually. x

I think estrangement has always gone on in families. It used to be referred to as 'being sent to Coventry' if people stop speaking to you. Girls who got pregnant without being married were often stigmatised and cast out as were relatives who may have been disabled or different in other ways.
Thankfully we have evolved since these times.

But family life is no longer lived behind closed doors like it used to be. It's far more transparent and a side effect of it being so is that we get a dazzling array of characters, ugly deeds, warts and all personalities, plotting, scheming, manipulators, rivalry, controllers, jealously haters and bigots. They're all in the mix.

These days I'm glad I've got a dog. At 57, I'm seizing life and enjoying it while I can. That's not to say I don't feel sadness, I do but thanks to the actions I've taken recently, I've got a far healthier perspective on it all.

I run a support group for EP's and we have taken under our wing some EC's too but it's about moving on rather than remaining in a perpetual state of grief over something we can't change. We try to not dwell on the E topic but obviously we all have our low days especially on birthdays, Mothers Days and Christmas. There again, it's about perspectives. There are plenty of elderly and single people living alone who experience the same, it's not just one particular group. It's easy to get taken over by the sense of loss and the betrayal. But what can you do? You've just got to count your blessings in other ways and connect to life in other ways.

Smileless and Nina, you're both making a lot of sense.

Meanwhile, Smileless, I'm so sorry that no one showed up. But I've had this happen before in my own family and then, eventually, the houses were sold. Please don't give up hope!

Rhinestone, I know your post was directed to notanan, so I won't say too much here. Just that I feel both ES and ESS/EDIL are leaving large gaps in the explanations (deliberately or not, I don't know). Or DD may be "interpreting" a bit. Or maybe they don't like to tell her too much cuz they feel as if they're "gossiping?" You may have to wait till they're ready to talk directly to you and DH.

It's all about perspectives too.

For example, if I say as an EP that my daughter yells and shouts at me, people ask me what I did to make her so upset, poor thing.

If an EC says their parent yells and shouts, they're advised to go NC and the parents are then diagnosed as having some kind of mental disorder. Lies are part of the dynamics unfortunately. No one wants to be judged as being in the wrong so stories are fabricated and things are exaggerated to project the blame elsewhere.

Regardless, whatever you decide is the right action to take for either side, it often helps to have a complete break away from the topic of estrangement. Otherwise it does drag you down. It also helps not to demonize or post ongoing critical comments about relatives because you're just reliving it all. Does no one any good.

Oh Jenty so much of what you say resonates with me. The liessome of which have been so awful I couldn't repeat them if I wanted too. Just thinking about some of the the things that have been said, makes me feel quite sick and these are just the lies we know about!!!

And why? Isn't it bad enough to walk away and reject your parents? Isn't that bad enough? So why compound the misery and heartache by telling lies? To begin with he reiterated her's which was bad enough but eventually came out with his own. What's so crazy is that everyone be they family or friends, knows that their lying, even some of their friends who knew us as a family before he met her have distanced themselves from them.

You ask "why would anyone do this?" Wendysue well they do it to try and justify what they've done. If someone were to ask our ES 'why don't you have anything to do with your parents anymore' he's hardly likely to say 'my wife resented my close relationship with them, especially with my mum, so I had to cut them out'. He isn't likely to say what he said to me 'we mustn't do this it causes too much trouble'. Oh no, those just aren't good enough reasons are they, he doesn't have even one good enough reason, so he lies.

With a little tweaking, what you said notanan describes our d.i.l. very well indeed; 'many think she's a distraught doting d.i.l. and we're the difficult parents in law', so as we've said on this thread before, there is a definite similarity in all of these cases whether it's the family member who understandably ends up with NC or family members who are cut out of a loved ones life even though they've done nothing to deserve it.

Thanks for asking about the open day Celeb; no one turned upnot one, not even the two couples who told the estate agent they would be going.

Getting fed up with it now. Thing is, we'd planned on redecorating the whole of the downstairs. Well I'd made plans because Mr. S. never plans to decorate seeing as he rather dislikes it and my good friends on here know I'm a bit of a decorating queen. Any way, I made a start by doing the study just before the house went on the market so after talking about it last night we've decided to go ahead with our plans so the house is the way we want it if it doesn't sell.

Mr. S. loves the garden and every year does fab hanging baskets etc but so far hasn't done anything because of our plans which do seem to be being thwarted by the big man upstairs. Which is rather annoying as I was convinced we'd been led to make the decision to move by the big man upstairs.

It's so lovely here in our little holiday home that we're actually spending more time here than at home so we've decided to crack on in a couple of weeks' time and come here every other weekend instead of every weekend like we have been doing.

Just seen that lovely d.i.l. in Aus. is on line so I'll go now and see if DS is around to skype.

Enjoy your long weekend everyone.

NotananHave you tried seeing a therapist for yourself? It has helped many people sort things out. Do you think your EM has a mental illness? I'm only asking because I have a bipolar mom. She was a very loving and nurturing mom but when I became an adult she was abusive in her manic stage having rants and rages and I would react to that. I didn't understand until twelve years ago that I was dealing with a disease not my real mom. Just a thought. Would going to therapy together help?
I understand totally why you would cut out an abusive person. In my case we don't understand why we were cut out at all. There were no rants or rages or disagreements. I have heard through my DD that her brother cut us off as well as my mom because " I worry too much." And also that we ask him questions about his life. Now , does this make sense to you being of the younger generation? My son is a distributor of medical marijuana. It is legal in our state. In my mind if you are proud of what you do, you would be happy to answer questions about your job.
My ESS and his wife have two boys. We babysat every week for three years before the second was born while taking care of two older parents. We picked up the GC as well as dropped him off. They live 26 miles away. We take everyone out to dinner over a year ago and my ESS is ignoring my DH. The next day my EDIL tells me her boys deserve a better grandfather. And we don't know why because it was never explained in the email. A few months ago when my daughter saw her brother he says that my ESS and his wife are mad because we don't treat the four children the same. They said I hired a cleaning person for my daughter and didn't get one for the DIL. And it's true. I hired one when my daughter was pregnant as part of their anniversary gift. I don't think they know that though.So I'm looking at their estrangement as an entitlement. They deserve this... They deserve that . We don't treat each child the same as each one is different and has different needs. So that's all we know and I ask you... Does this warrant estrangement? What's your young opinion?

sadly I think we still look for avenues that arent even there!

wendySue...I try not to judge anyone I've never met so I wasn't making any assumptions. I was simply asking Notanan if all avenues have been exhausted which clearly they have.

RHM and Jenty, it's so sad to hear about the lies and rumors - and about people you (general) are supposed to love or who, if nothing else, are married to/the parent of someone you love! Why would anyone do this? No matter how hurt or angry? How do they possibly think this can help? I can't begin to fathom it? Heartbreaking!

'Well I know that my girls lie about me as Ive caught them out several times and in the past Ive actually confronted them both and of course they have denied they have lied...the lies and deceit is endless and very hurtful and awful when you read what they have accused you of on the internet for all to see.....'

100% sympathise with this.
I confronted her about a certain lie she had told people, she denied any knowledge of it, then she said she did say it but managed to blame me for saying it and at the end of the conversation it was my fault!
It was madness.

Well I know that my girls lie about me as Ive caught them out several times and in the past Ive actually confronted them both and of course they have denied they have lied...the lies and deceit is endless and very hurtful and awful when you read what they have accused you of on the internet for all to see.....

And of course this adds to the no contact with grandchildren as a punishment! Ive tried making contact with my two older adult grandchildren but they rarely respond to my emails so a couple of years ago I stopped buying birthday and xmas presents as this was the only time they seemed to visit me when they wanted something ( no not as a punishment I wasnt going to me a nan just for gifts!) Ive left facebook as it was too upsetting seeing them post about 'their family' activities and Ive been excluded....Im so tired of doing the chasing and not getting anywhere I cant do it anymore it was making me really ill ...(I have M.E. and have had NO support at all from them ) as with my daughters the ball is now firmly in their court!

Im so thankful I have a wonderful son and daughter in law and baby grandson to enrich my life...

Oh notanan. Everything you have wrote down describes my MIL down to a T.
This bit especially,

'Im afraid that's not the case. She's a practiced "street angel" and many people think she's a distraught doting nanna and I'm the "difficult" daughter.'

Apart from its son and DIL.
My DH has always said that when it was just him, he could ignore it, push it away but as soon as we got together she started doing it with me, and then used our children.
I come from a (fairly!) Normal family, we aren't perfect by any means. The change in dynamics was bizzare.

DH always put her needs and feelings above anyone's, even his own. Once he couldn't live up to what he once was he would get texts, horrible texts. 'I am your mother, you'll do as i say' he was 22 and had me and a child. He couldn't drop everything. She would go in moods and sulk. It made us so anxious.

What I found our with these things kind of people, is you can try your best but it's still not good enough. They epxcet a lot from you but make no effort on their part. This isn't because she's a MIL or Mom she's just a nasty person and there are nasty people out there, any age or gender.

It's mentally and emotionally exhausting. Every text or email would send me in panic. DH was use to it but I wasn't, I'd dread her visit because I didn't know what mood she would be in.
She expected a relationship with our DD without putting any effort to make one, she'd never play with them or read to them. DH said she's always been like it, she expected respect and love but never did anything to get it.

Coming up to the birth of DD2 I had to see a councillor. I had PND with my 1st and she didn't help matters. I didn't want to feel like that again so I was taught how to handle these kind of relationships.
I was told that you can't change other people's behaviour but you can change how you react to it. She spoke to DH as well.

That's when it got worse. We stood up to her and didn't make as much effort as before. The build up to the birth, the birth and afterwards was absolutely horrendous and I'll never forgive her. She treated us and my children like her worst enemies. She lied about me, spread rumours, aired everything on social media.

DH was furious as he finally saw what she was capable of. He told her everything, everything that hurt us, how she never makes any effort with the children and we wouldn't 'forget' it and would like an apology because of the hurt she'd caused and wanted a normal relationship.

3 years later and nothing, not even a sorry. We've had numerous people say that she's heartbroken, she has no idea what she's done and she loves and misses her GD more than anything.

In real life, she knows what's she's done..you can't treat people like that and expect everything to be OK. She didn't see our DDs for 2 months because we was being awkward (we live so close and they have a car) and she never had a relationship with DD to begin with.
The girls have had no cards, birthday or Christmas, she hasn't tried to fix anything. It's such a shame. She's missing out on so much and it's down to her.

People like her, you can't fix. You can't maintain a normal relationship with them because they think differently. They can't see any fault in what they've done. It's everyone else. She is NC with alot of her family but it's ALL them and nothing she's done. This isn't because she's a MIL/mom/daughter/nan/etc she's just that way but it doesn't mean anyone has to put up and tolerate.
The best thing to do is remove yourself.
I felt a sense of loss for a MIL I expected to have, a grandparent for my children, sleepovers, help, love, family days..all the normal stuff. But she wasn't capable of that.

Sorry this was so long, I hope it can help those who have wondered 'what have I done?!' Because chances are it's not you. It's them. They seem to move on really easily and you're just left wondering what you did to deserve any of it. The abusive emails and God knows what else. It's THEM and nothing you can do can help

Nina, I know you were addressing notanan, but just gotta say, from just her example about refusing tea, alone, even I see her mother as abusive and I've never even met the woman.

Anyhow, Nina, I'm so sorry to read about all the emotional back & forth you've been through with your daughter and the fact that it actually made you ill. You have definitely been through more than your share of pain. Glad to hear that you have begun to get past it though and move on with your life.

Smileless, IMO, you make a very good point - some parents may fear that their EPs may lie to their child simply cuz that's what they're doing when they talk about the EPs. But, in some cases, it may just reflect the broken relationship and lack of trust between them. That may bey why some EPs fear their EAC will lie about them, too, I think - cuz trust has already been broken.

Celebregran, is it you after retail therapy, or the garden that is starting to look very pretty.Probably both. I spent most of yesterday, planting up bedding plants, digging up grape hyacinths and ended up looking as if I had done a shift down a mine. How do people garden and look good, I just can't, I start of like that. Once finished I had a shower and a glass of Pinot and surveyed my handy work. ?

Notanan youj sound very sensible and Balanced.

It is hard I think my ed was very protective and possessive of firstborn over the top really but I made allowances because it was her much wanted babe and she had been v concerned that she would not be able have children. We weren't allowed to have Hoover on or basically talk about anything else, however I was besotted too so didn't matter. She said to her dad once you've undone matter I don't matter it is only xxxxx
Our egd that is important which I found rather worryingly

NOW she has 3 little ones and i am so pleased for her it's want she wanted, just so sad she doesn't want snare with me or her dad, brother etc etc.

In you ur case it doesn't seem decision made lightly and you have not cut off all your family it must be awfully hard to have to cut out a mum and well done for trying your best to handle it so well.

we have plenty of other people who we love but can be as irritating as the next person.

Everyone has irritating, or difficult qualities, but the over all experience of having them in your life is good.

So don't worry, my kids are growing up having to be tolerant and forgiving of the normal spectrum of behaviours in our relationships with the people we do chose to have in our lives

Being normal or acceptable doesn't mean always being nice and meek. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing or even being irritated by people from time to time.

But I don't want them growing up believing that they have to take whatever is thrown at them and that they can never leave damaging relationships.

No youre wrong Notanan. There is a huge difference between a difficult person and an abusive person. Difficult people are everywhere, we can't protect our children from every source of difficult person they will ever encounter. They'll never make it in the world otherwise. They'll end up living in a state of permanent shock unable to deal with reality.

So, you've decided your mum is a destructive, abusive person. In this case, there isn't much you can do except leave her to live her life and you live yours.

I'm asking because in my generation we were taught to learn from and tolerate difficult people. They do serve a purpose not least they teach us not to be like them

It is well known that that is not the case
Children who witness abuse as an accepted "norm" (or other bad things like drug use, alcohol abuse) are not more likely to learn to NOT be like their role models, they are much more likely to themselves be abusers or victims or addicts etc if it is accepted and tolerated as normal in their own home

No I don't love her because love doesn't and shouldn't hurt. I used to love her but luckily I've experienced love that doesn't hurt from other sources.
She thinks that its okay for love to be destructive and damaging, so she thinks she does love me.
I don't disagree that she loves me in her way, but I disagree that that is what love/loving is.

NC is sad, it's sad it's come to this, but it is far less miserable than contact with her. It's the lesser of two evils

Oh luckylegs so sorry that is such sad post but it is true, it certainly affected my self esteem and I am quite sensitive anyway but now I tend to be ultra sensitive with other relationships. It is so hard to j dress d how can ed go from loving daughter in daily contact to total no contact it is tremendous shock even . 7 years on I still have very bad days but lots good ones too no good in wallowing.

At one time a Young girl ed age who happened to be kind could reduce me to tears, I am lot stronger now and can chat to her peer group who I see around the town with their little ones. In earlier days I once ran crying from swim pool after seeing an old friend of ed with their mum and grandchild. It still hurts but I can deal with it.

So much pain and hurt and all so needless in my opinion.

Smilelss how did open Day go?

I have been on retail therapy new skirt couple tops and rest day working In Garden starting look very pretty

It's sat bank holiday ????maybe?