should the children be more important than the relationship

I don't think I have the same relationship with my DH as pollyp has.

We've been married close on fifty years and we have changed. He has developed his interests which I most definitely do not share. I enjoy him being out of the house following those interests. I sometimes drag him out to lunch but, TBH, I would much rather go with my DD. We have much more to talk about. We even watch television in different rooms for much of the time.

We are ok though. Quite happy really.

Love to Jings

I honestly don't care hink that petra, and I think it's unfair to say that. She stated an interesting point of view. That's all.

Thank you Nannaandgrampy. what brought that on?

Slow day here , anything to liven it up Jings 1

Very welcome anyway.

You and yer old fella sound Ok, jings

I strongly endorse 'NanaandGrampy's views. And also the person who referred to reikilady's views as 'jaundiced'(can't be bothered to scroll back looking for the name. Seems to me reikilady/ethelbags has a very warped outlook on relationships.

If a child knows that the whole world revolves around them, and - by inference - that their needs AND wants are more important than anyone else's it it the child who will grow up as a "spoiled brat". Balance is all. Of course time must be given to children, and there are certainly many occasions when their needs ( as opposed to wants) must come first. But to sustain a rewarding and healthy relationship the same must be accorded to one's partner - and reciprocated, of course.

And as someone else said, - how precious for both grandparents and child to develop a relationship unencumbered by parents being there.

I dont understand reikilady. She has said about winding people up before, so some of her threads are a wind up and some are not.

Jings sounds like you and your DH have a great balance , and isn't what that we all want.

Certainly over the years DH and I have had some cracking rows over the years ... Now we seem to have found a happy middle ground ! Like you really .

Jingle. I think you have your 'nice' head on today LOL. You know exactly what Ethel is like.

I think that it is the children who miss out when they get a parent like Ethel and her jaundiced views of men.
I prefer the relationship described by pollyparrot and NanandGrampy, it is so, so much healthier for the children. It is certainly not cloying. DH and I have a relationship like that and it doesn't prevent you doing things on your own.
I know we have had the worrying argument before that children are so horrible that only the parent can love them! Of course you can love children that are not blood relations.
My first DH died and DS was absolutely desperate for a father and siblings when little, he was extremely lucky that we found a lovely man and of course he is loved. His life has been so much richer with a step father and siblings than stuck with a mother who makes him think she is the only one that can love him!
If that suits you then fine Ethel, but please don't think that your idea of marriage or step parenting is normal for many of us.

It would worry me that a child was brought up with a parent with warped views of relationships- hopefully they can see from friends and wider family that there are other ways.

This is what etheltbags said in the opening of her OP:

although I'm happy to babysit I do think that they should put the child first. Under 5s need their mothers

She is happy to babysit (and will love it), but wonders if the child may feel a bit insecure as she believes under-5s need their mothers. So many tots today are put into nursery from a few months old because mothers want or must go back to work.
On the other hand, I do know of some younger mums who would never leave their children unless absolutely necessary, leaving them with other people does not necessarily make them more secure, sometimes it can make them less secure.

Someone earlier said it takes a whole village to raise a child, but I think it takes all sorts to make a world.
And one of the most happy families we know (or we thought they were), with the parents having plenty of 'me' time, together and separately, is just in the process of splitting up which has upset a lot of us who know them greatly.
There is far too much me, me, me these days imo.

I think we need to get it into perspective - the child is being left for a weekend with a loving grandmother.

Not sure how that translates into 'me,me,me'. Anyone would think they regularly jet off to the Bahamas for 2 weeks without their child!

Oh, I was thinking of the people I know, sorry!

No doubt some people are selfish - in fact I know that they are - but I don't think that having a weekend off with adult only type activities is being selfish. It is good for all. I think that it is wonderful for a child to have an independent relationship with grandparents. My grandfather died when I was quite young, but I still remember the pleasure that we got with just the two of us.

I think if I was the husband that you told so forthrightly that you put behind your daughter in all things, Reiki, you might just have ended up being a single Mum! When you enter a relationship, it is because you choose that person above all others. Of course, any children which come along are of course important, and they develop and change your relationship, but they come OUT of that central relationship, and I don't think they can or should usurp it. I don't regard that as healthy in any way for any of the family members, and were i the amateur phychologist type, I might even be questioning quite why you were so eager to shift your allegiance from partner to child...

Psychologist, I meant!

I would feel sorry for any man to be told that he now comes second to our children. Children love being with other family members it is part of their development, that special relationship with grandparents is wonderful. They see a different world through grandparents eyes without mom looking over their shoulders. The father is just as important to your child as the mother. My late father and I had a lovely relationship, he was the one that took me out on a Sunday, walking and I developed a life long passion of going for long walks in local parks etc. We used to be out a couple of hours and when we got home Mom would have a lovely roast in the oven,mom would be sitting there with out cat on her lap drinking a cup of tea. I used to go shopping with mom on a Saturday and that was our time.

I am amazed that anyone can think that caring for a relationship is a bad thing and spending time with grandparents not something to be valued.

My children had many happy times with my parents and my husband and I certainly valued the break and felt that a good relationship was the most important thing to make a happy home for our children.

As grandparents now we are about to have the pleasure of our grandsons company for a couple of days this week. Can't wait

I have never said that spending time with a grandparent is not to be valued. please refer to the OP.

why cant you all live and let live, I know lots of single parents who bring up their children without a man and the kids are lovely and well balanced. The world doesn't revolve around adult relationships.

Look to our own history in past times the father was never seen and the mother was the carer, the father just being seen on special occasions and ruled with an iron will, the kids were scared of them. My granny used to tell me what it was like for her, when father was in, there was to be no noise, children were to be seen and not heard etc etc. The children were brought up well and seemed no worse than todays young ones.

So please don't insult my intelligence, I know some of you are really lovely and I regard as my friends but others are being really bitchy.
I love my DGD and she often stays over but just for one night and sometimes asks for her mum, I just think that maybe more than 2 nights is a bit much for her age.

Actually I know where reiki is coming from and I don't think it is mostly about who has the child, or the parents' relationship which is what most people seem to have picked up on. It is about how things have changed over time and how the idea that children were the most important things in the family especially under 5s has changed so that now children are very much just an extra and the parents' lives, both their social or professional life, has taken over. I think it is a valid point and I think both parents sometimes behave like this. I think that sometimes under 5s today have difficult and stressful lives. That said it is almost impossible to turn the clock back, but I do wonder if a child is in a nursery all week whilst her parents are at work is it then OK to leave the child at the weekend as well? It might be nice for the GPs but is it good for the child? I really am not sure.