should the children be more important than the relationship

Well I still agree with her (*ethelbags*) Can't see what all the fuss is about. She's probably right about a lot of men. (not necessarily my old feller)

I can't stand gpoing shopping with my DH. Luckily he doesn't like it either.

Wilma I haven't posted as I have been up to my neck in work. I stand by all I said (ethel)

It's ridiculous lumping all men together. If Ethel had three sons like mine she'd never have posted such rubbish. I have three wonderful sons, who look after their families, they cook, shop, do housework, change nappies, get up in the night, and have responsible well paid jobs. I also have two gorgeous grandsons.

Hi ethel glad to hear you're OK.

Jalima there's nothing wrong with having different opinions, but opinions can and do offend.

jing do you agree with everything ethel has said on this thread or just the bit about not going away without your children?

B....y H.ll, I didn't mean to start world war 3.
First I did say those things to my late DH. He agreed as I said I expect you to put the baby first before me too. We had no problem, he died suddenly when DD was aged6.

He was the best husband ever but over the years I did not look for another as I didn't want DD to have another Dad, no one can love children as much as you do. My mother never met another man till I was grown up (similar circumstances). Over the years I grew self sufficient I never ask anyones help, I pay for anything done to the house/car/garden. I like it this way

I see women who have to ask their husband if they can go out with friends and it annoys me, it also annoys me that some couples can answer for the other when I ask a question, I would find it claustrophobic . I like men but I couldn't eat a whole one.

I like working with men but apart from having a long term relationship with a waster when DD grew up I just don't need a man.

Im not a monster I just know I could survive without a MAN unlike some of the posters on here.

Hi reikilady/Ethel I just know I too could survive without a man if I had too. Like many women including lots of my close female relatives I'd have no choice. I think that's probably true of all the posters on here. Most men are decent. Most are wonderful husbands, fathers and sons. Yes I know there are some right shites but some women can be just as bad. It's not your opinion that people take umbrage with, it's the fact that it can sometimes probably unintentionally sound like an accusation.

It's not a situation where you want a man because you can't manage on your own. I love my DH and he loves me. We look after each other and we are best friends. We share a life and love our outings, holidays, doing the garden, even just going for a coffee together. We have all the family here for tea or Sunday dinners and we are one big happy family. My three sons are great fun and they love their wives and families. This is the reality for many people.

Sorry polly I would find that too cloying it would do my head in, I need lots of me time , not time spend being the amusing, witty ,ego booster, companion for some man

I think that's where your idea of being with a man and mine are very different Reiki ,

You see being amusing - I see having a good old laugh together.

You see witty - I see being my funny old self with someone who gets me .

You see Ego Booster - I see a short , fat , getting to that age woman ...I don't think my DHs ego would get much boost from that .

Companion is where we agree. Thats what my DH and I are, companions, still in love after nearly 40 years, being together because we WANT to be and each of us getting something from our relationship.

Twee though it sounds we are more than the sum of the parts and we are better together.

If being alone makes you happy then all power to you but many , many of us are happy being together.

Lovely post NannaandGrampy, just change short to tallish and 40 to 30, then that's me!

Sadly for you Reikilady you appear to hold a very jaundiced view about marriage and men.

I have had almost four years of being without mine. I can manage fine without him. I have family, friends, good neighbours. I love my house, I like my city, I have things to do the involve my brain and my heart, and keep my body flexible. I am not a sad case who spends my days lamenting my lot.

But I would give anything to have him back. He was my best friend. I was never a satellite to him, nor was he a helpless babe dependent on me to feed him, entertain him or "bolster his ego" We were individuals who chose to live together and raise children who were an amalgam of us both - and who did not need us to consciously decide to "put them before each other", because as a family we all worked together, not as a hierarchy.

Perhaps we were lucky? Perhaps we both had examples of that kind of family from our own childhood? Perhaps neither of us felt we had to lay down ground rules of precedence, or exert control over one another, or warn one another not to expect to get as much love now that there were others to share it??

What is certain is that we liked each other as well as loved.

wilma in reply to your question, I just don't think ethelb has said anything outrageous. More has been read into it and than was intend ed. But hey, GN loves a ding dong.

Ok I get that some of you have great relationships and don't agree with reiki/ethel, but here's a question for you. Do you never feel that there is some aspect of your personality/life that you have adapted or even lost to fit in with the other person? If you think I am trying to be clever I'm not. I am really curious. I know that if I had stayed married to my ex my life wouldn't have had all the interesting little bits in it, it has. So although the divorce was painful it benefited me and I do get where reiki/ethel is coming from.

Jingl do you really think there has been a ding dong?

All I see are people sharing very different views and in some cases expressing sadness ( or incredulity) for/ to/ at the OP.

I think it's been very interesting to see how people view families, children and husbands and the dynamics , don't you?

Reikilady, why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answers? We all do things our own way and we are entitled to do what is right for us and our relationships. What is important at the end, is a contented child and a good relationship. How we achieve that is down to each individual.

I agree with Witchygran

polly nanny&grampy you sound lovely families. Elegran your a wonderful advert for a successful happy relationship and one I have aspired to emulate. That may sound trite and cloying and a bit like the walton family. For lots of us (yes not allof us) its the route to a happy life. I'm leaving now I'm getting all soppy

Ethel said: Sorry polly I would find that too cloying it would do my head in, I need lots of me time , not time spend being the amusing, witty ,ego booster, companion for some man.

My marriage is anything but cloying. I don't spend a single minute trying to be the amusing, witty, etc... person you speak of.

We have a laugh together, we look after each other, we're best friends, we share companionship.

I'm a person who needs space and I get enough of that as well.

A marriage that works is about both partners. It's not about a woman attending to the needs of a man. The very thought of that is hilarious, quite honestly. I think there's a bit of a troll going on here, if you don't mind me saying so.

trisher yes, if you are spending a lot of your time together, then both parties have to adjust to it. There are three people in every marriage, (and that is before the children come along to add to the number of personalities in it!)

There is me.
There is you.
There is us.

It doesn't work if any one of those three become too dominant, at the expense of the other two. If the demands of one of the partners pushes the balance too far away from both the other partner and the "us" then the other partner becomes unhappy. If "us" becomes more important than either of the partners, then links to the outside world wither, and neither partner can develop their own life.

I think our childhood experiences of family life can have a great influence on our own partnerships, for good or ill. We copy the good and bad things we watch our parents do, mostly without even realising it. Some people consciously reject what they have seen causing unhappiness, but for some the lessons have been too well learnt too early.

jing thanks for your reply. We don't agree, but that's GN!

trisher of course I have adapted parts of me to fit in with my DH, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. We adapt to out environment where ever we are, taking on the role we need for the situation. I'm not aware of anything I lost from my personality.

Elegran I love your posts about all this, but I especially love

There is me.
There is you.
There is us.

Thank you.

our = out

Nannaandgrampy I didn't give it that much thought tbh. Shall we have an argument lengthy discussion over whether it has been a 'ding dong' or not?

"I think there's a bit of troll going on here, if you don't mind me saying so"
Ethel is good at that. She's done it many times before.