Nasty thread on Mumsnet about a Gransnet thread

People have posted to say exactly that - the children can be identified! In fact, with a small effort, the whole families and where they live and work could be identified. The response from the poster (if I remember rightly) was on the lines that they did not mind being identified so that everyone knew how they had been treated!

I agree that GNGQ should delete anything that identifies a child - but it would mean someone reporting that post unless HQ actively monitored and moderated, which is not their policy. I wonder how the poster(s) would react to their post(s) being reported and deleted? More evidence of how they are victimised? It is possible.

there were direct quotes from here over there (and there have in the past MN has been quoted unfavourably on the estranged thread). The MN thread itself and the general discussion there still stands. The direct quoting from another forum ones are gone.

"The response from the poster (if I remember rightly) was on the lines that they did not mind being identified so that everyone knew how they had been treated!"

In a situation like that it is hardly surprising that the child(ren?) have been kept away, how could they not? if the GPs main focus is to get at the child's parents even when it's at the detriment of the child and their privacy/safety/security then that is exactly the kind of thing that can make a parent feel that the only way to keep the child safe and preserve some sort of peaceful life is NC.

I am MiL and a Dil
My PiL cut all contact with me for 10yrs
My crime?
I would not let them take my DC out in their car as they refused to put in child car safety seats in to their car even though we offered to pay for them
My DH agreed with me but was the only child so was not ostrised as I was.
In that time I encouraged my DH to take the DC every other weekend to see their GPs.
I never spoke ill of my inlaws in front of my children and they were totlally unaware of the situation.
This was never resolved but after my FiL suffered a heart attack and I went to visit him in hospital , there was a slight thaw.
I now look after my MIL who has dementia.

On the other side of the coin I bend over backwards to agree with my DIL.
The bank of mum and dad has come in to play several times. With no repayments expected.
My DS ,DIL and my soon to be 1yr old DGS lives 11/2 hrs away.
I have only seen my GS on three very short occasions.
Every time we asked to go or invite them to us, there is always an excuse.
We are the only GPs. And our DGS doesn't know us.
I'm not an emotional person but I have cried a plenty.
We are very lucky to have a DD and 2 DGS who we see all the time.
But they have never seen their baby cousin.

Chances are that todays DIL is tomorrows MIL.

Chances are that todays DIL is tomorrows MIL

If my relationship with my DCs were to for some reason to become destructive and harmful and make them overwhelmingly unhappy without resolution, I hope they would remove themselves from it.

Because I hope that they won't accept an unhealthy relationship from anyone : Bullies at school, bullies at work, future partners, future ILs, each other (actually for me that's the saddest possibility! sadder than losing them myself, I hope they always have each other) strangers in the street.. or us if we somehow turned out that way.

Because I love them and hope that they have learnt from our example what a healthy relationship is, and that it's okay to leave an unhealthy one no matter who it is with, even if it's with your parents

I think Elegran has summed up 'that' thread perfectly and explained why most Gransnetters steer well clear of it. I hope that Mumsnetters understand this and do not think that the views expressed there are representative of the attitudes of the vast majority of Gransnetters.

Visitor from MN here.

Shocking thread, strange to see the word 'fog' used in a subversion of what it means to those of us who have experienced parents/grandparents like this.

It is reassuring to read not all gransnetters are like this (are other gransnetters embarrassed by these posters? Their views on this issue?)

Thread on mn was not about gn and gn wasn't even mentioned for several pages. That said surely gn is as much open for discussion as anything else online?

And yes the use of real names etc is worrying.

We have resorted to it so that the children don't grow up learning that destructive relationships is something you keep taking. Surely any loving grandparent would want their GCs learning that for their own future relationships?

Do you mind if I pick this up, notanan? I think the answer is - as so often - denial. You know all those bullish people, with hair-trigger tempers, who protest "Well, I was thrashed/buggered/bawled out every teatime, and it never did me any harm!" Anyone with a reasonable amount of sanity looks at them and thinks "Really? The harm it did is written all over your blood pressure!"

But if the events which shaped you, also taught you that you are a faulty being whose challenge is to bravely take the punishment ... you can't admit that those events harmed you. This would make you faulty. And the punishments for being faulty are grave indeed. It's a cognitive Catch-22, whose only possible resolution is to pass along the lessons. This both confirms that all's right with the world, and places you in the position of overlord having served your time as the underdog.

I've said "It never did me any harm, haha" numerous times, while behaving in some outlandish way and choosing not to examine the of all around me. It took a breakdown for me to eventually realise my childhood had not been a bit strict, but seriously abusive. Years on, I'm still bumping up against the errors & misconceptions it left me with. This is not an easy road to travel and, actually, I don't blame anyone for ignoring the signpost!

Those of my siblings who've had children - half of us didn't; funny that - have repeated my parents' errors, although less harshly. They cannot discuss this: too painful or shameful. Our parents, in turn, were less harsh than their own (and they were harsh!) Naturally I could write pages about this, but it isn't the place and I'm already writing a small dissertation.

Denial is wrong. It's foolish, damaging to the denier as well as all around them, and it's a trap. But I can empathise with the reasons for it. It is very rarely an active choice: it's a defence mechanism, and feels like survival.

Understanding why our parents are abusive doesn't excuse the abuse though, nor does it justify risking inflicting similar abuse on our children (their grandchildren). The cycle has to be broken somewhere.

I'm NC with my father, low contact with my mother and NC with my sister.

I did not take these decisions lightly nor is it the first time, but the third. And the previous occasions it was me that had to make all the 'compromise'.

But when my dd was asking 'why don't grandad/grandma/auntie love me?' 'Why do I always get the blame when I wasn't even there when x happened?' It's heartbreaking and at some point enough is enough. And yes I had numerous discussions and tried various anti-conflict tactics they didn't work.

OMG, I had no intention of suggesting it's an excuse!

I was trying (perhaps failing, sorry) to show that it may not be a case of the 'bad' parents choosing not to break the pattern. It's natural to wonder why they don't want better for their DC & DGC.

But if they're terrified to even see there is a better way - that the pattern is a problem - that question has never occurred to them. It can't.

What surprised me was the bad language used and it didn't seem worrying to some young mums to ditch the parents if they don't agree with their point of view. You have to be open minded and yes there are two sides to very situation, the only way forward is to discuss things you are not happy with and reach a compromise and not just sever contact.

Apologies if I misunderstood, as I'm sure you can appreciate I'm just rather used to hearing excuses and reasons why I'M the bad guy for taking the decision to protect my child.

My father absolutely will not accept he's done anything wrong, neither will sister (her nor father), my mother accepts SOME of what happened was awful but is in denial (an overused and misunderstood term by those who've never truly witnessed it) about the worst stuff.

Luckylegs I've not yet come across anyone either on mn or in real life that has taken the decision lightly/without good cause.

In my case there is genuine quite serious abuse to factor in too, and I still waivered.

I think the fact that families are actually named and are so easily identified on a forum and their transgressions so publicized jist points out how the split happened in the first place. I feel deep sorrow for all concerned. They now need to move on with their separate lives. Too much water has flowed under the bridge for reconciliation.

I haven't been on any of the MN threads where anyone "just severed contact", it's a long and painful decision to get to that point. Nobody wants to have to do it! But invariably posters say they feel they had to do it, there was no other choice.

I didn't turn 18 and decide "I don't need my parents to keep my alive now, I'm off". I spent too long of my adulthood trying to salvage some sort of normal relationship with my parent.

It wasn't normal. She probably thought it was, or at least more normal than her own upbringing, but it was not normal or healthy. Of course I tried to talk about it but it's a bit of a brick wall when she thinks her behaviour was fine, and the way things were was just "normal family stuff" (it wasn't!) and in some cases completely denies some events took place.

I am a gran who has given up trying with my DD. I have waited years and a few different MILS to have my child think I am a real person who would actually like to see DD and DGCs at any time but also on the special days like birthdays Easter, Christmas etc. I have waited a long time never demanding that I am the gran who gets the visit. It is not just me it is other members of my DD's family who have waited for her to visit. Some invites have been made and not even acknowledged and certainly not accepted and carried through.
It is hard to accept that it was OK for her family to bring her up but as soon as she got into boyfriends we were of no further use to her. It started when she was 18 or 19. Understanding why is not so easy, she will not accept that she is the one who favours her In Laws (several) over her own relatives. Yet when things are bad we are expected to rush to her aid.
It has affected my health and my confidence. I think I feel a bit better not to have expectations rather than on every occasion waiting and wondering if there will be a visit. Probably better to just accept the situation in front of me.

"Probably better to just accept the situation in front of me." Yes, accepting that the situation is not going to change allows it to fade into the background, and not be a continual thorn in the flesh.

When you have apologised for anything that you realise you did wrong, stopped doing it again (very important!) and genuinely tried to construct a different relationship, then found that it is impossible, the best thing is to accept that you have separate lives and get on with your own without "picking at the scab" - nothing heals if you don't leave it alone.

The first hurdle is realising what part you have played in the rift, and that is where many people fail to even get started. It doesn't have to be downright abuse. It could have been a genuine wish to do the best for a child -

- discouraging friends who seemed unsuitable,
- banning a boyfriend or girlfriend from a different background without considering the personality of that actual person,
- pushing a child into a career that doesn't suit them because it is "safe"
- being so dependent on them for emotional supprt that they feel smothered.

Then, when they leave home to set up their own family, -

- not respecting their judgment about bringing them up,
- interfering and subverting their plans and refusing to compromise,
- expecting unreasonable access at all times, when the parents are trying to establish a routine of their own.

Finally - taking umbrage when told to back off a little and turning it into a soap opera drama.

Though thankfully, I'm not estranged from my AC and families, I know that "you never know" and so, I read threads about estrangement both here, on MN and elsewhere. As such, I have some opinions on the topic of this thread.

IMO, it's good for both AC/CIL and parents/PIL to realize there are "2 sides to every story" and get a chance to see what might be the other perspective. However, the 2 threads being discussed on MN, as I understand it, were opened up as support threads for EPs/EGPs. While sometimes one poster will make a suggestion of how another poster might handle their situation differently or question a choice they made, it's usually done gently, and for the most part, those threads are for people to give each other comfort. Some of the situations are, sadly, beyond hope and the GPs just need something to help them to get through and move on. Even if the scenario isn't hopeless, sometimes, IMO, a person needs to hear, "I understand." There's a place for constructive criticism, I believe, but not in those threads.

In fact, I've read threads on MN where I could see what the MIL's perspective might be and how the DIL might be missing that - and yet other MNers rallied around her to agree that her MIL was a terrible boundary-stomper and so forth. Sometimes a DIL/AC needs that kind of support and sometimes a MIL/parent/GP needs that, too.

Also, while I agree with those who say the MN thread is merely pointing out that there are 2 sides and so on, some of the posts say very cruel things about the EPs in the estrangement threads, even suggesting that the EPs feelings have no validity. IMO, while some EPs may be totally in the wrong, that doesn't mean that that their feelings aren't very real or that they don't actually have a side to the story.

Interestingly, if you (general) read carefully enough, you'll see that both sides tend to accuse each other of NPD! Not sure what to think of that...

Meanwhile, my heart goes out to all the DDs/DILs who have come in here and told us about their problems w/ their MILs and so one. Thank you for reminding us that AC/CIL can suffer, too. We need that perspective.

Just want to add that I totally sympathize with those of you here who have CO PILs cuz they wouldn't follow safety rules/did something dangerous with your kids. Protecting your children/core family is ABOVE ALL, in my view.

Also, Married2BlackSheep, I wouldn't have blamed you and DH if you CO pr lowered contact with your ILs even before the dangerous incident. Racist and homophobic comments are so not ok. Even if they apologized for those and promised not to utter them in front of the kids again, I think I would have at least lowered contact, if I were you. Cuz the attitudes would still be there and you (general) can't be sure whether or not such a nasty comment would slip out, eventually, or not.

wendysue, why is there always the assumption that it's DILS cutting off MILs? most of the MN posters are talking about their own parents.

I can't get my head around why if someone leaves a damaging relationship with a partner, nobody tells them "there's two sides to every story" and they should acknowledge the feelings of their abuser. But if the damaging relationship was with a parent or IL is okay to victim blame?

People don't walk away from good relationships, only bad ones.

You don't go through a divorce because you wake up one day and decide to hurt your partner for no reason.
You don't walk away from your parents unless you have no other good choice. Either stay and have your children learn unhealthy relationship habits, or leave.

Some people do walk away from good relationships notanan, our son did. I am not naive enough to think that all parents of EC have done nothing to deserve to be totally excluded from their children's lives and you shouldn't be naive enough to think this only happens to 'bad' parents.

As a regular poster on 'that thread' I'm 99.9 per cent certain that the 'quote' on MN didn't come from 'that thread'. I've certainly no recollection of seeing it on the thread in its current form and when it used to be in AIBU and I've been a regular poster for nearly 4 years.

Wendysue as always you've made a great contribution to the discussion.

Well that is a hard one to reconcile smileless because my mother would swear blind to the outside world that we had a good loving family.
Street angel house devil as they say

MNers never atributed the original quote to GN. What was said was that it is sad and depressing how the GN thread demonstrates well why people have to go NC in some cases, and why there's no hope of reconcilliation (i.e. the lack of insight)

Just read MarriedtoBlacksheep so before I continue reading, I just wanted to say Thanks for posting . I would and have done everything in my power to end this estrangement, apologized for things I have no idea what, said I would change my ways and on and on, but nasty s.i.l wanted me out, then the sister [my ND], followed by every member of my now estD's family. He is stepdad to my precious GD and he and his mother were just jealous of our special and loving bond, so we had to go!

Alea I have nothing to hide and am not ashamed of anything, all my family members know the whole story, so why would I not be open and honest, I have no problem if someone can suss out who I am and if nasty s.i.l & his mother feel the same, they wont mind either.

Jinglebells as always, you made me laugh about dinner

My children's digital safety and privacy would always trump my own motives to have "my side" of anything heard.

Because I love them in an unselfish way, and their best intrests trump whatever else I have going on.

Notanan I loved my now estD with all of my heart and soul, as I love my GC. We had a very loving and special bond too. My D&GD lived with me. When her now H came along, I welcomed him with open arms, he lived in my house for 6mnths too and we didn't have a problem then. When they moved into their own home, I knew my place and was very happy for them. Too long a story to repeat, but I miss my baby daughter so so much, I cry everyday for her and my GC and just want them back.
reading & posting...