Racism

I feel very embarrassed to remember that when I started work as a young woman, in a Hospital, everyone used to talk of each department employing a statutory looney and a statutory w*g!

Three of my GCs are of dual heritage and as far as I know encounter no racism thank goodness. Their father is of Jamaican origin. I heard a while ago that the term 'mixed race' is considered unacceptable these days, but it still seems to be in general use.

Mojowic - that's such a sad story, but it shows how you can never know what reaction people will have to mixed races, especially within your own family.
I've known a similar thing with mixed religions - a Jewish friend of ours fell for a non-Jewish girl from a very religious Catholic family. They married, but the girl's family refused to come to the wedding.

I am adding to this discussion because of the way I was treated recently in a shop. I don't recall the exact name of the shop but it is a florist in Blackheath, London, next to the station. My DD asked me to buy some flowers and I was appalled by the way I was treated. There was no greeting, no smile and the woman's whole attitude was very frosty. She handed me my change without a word until I very pointedly said 'thank you' and then she muttered 'thank you' in turn. It was very obvious that I was not welcome in that shop. When I mentioned it to my DD, she told me that can Indian friend of hers had met with the same treatment.
This attitude is not only very upsetting for the customer but surely bad for business! My DD says she will not shop there again. This is the kind of racist attitude that does not make the headlines, but it is not the first time, obviously,that I have experienced this and now I am fed up enough to point out the shop where it happened. In this day and age it is obviously not possible to write 'No Blacks' on the door of a shop, but the attitude when you go in is just as bad as if it was written in capitals!

Are you sure it was racism? Maybe she's just a miserable type who's had a bad day and was surly to all her customers? I've certainly met extremely poor customer service at times in shops but its not down to racism.

Even as I was typing, I thought, someone will say 'it's someone having a bad day.' The answer to this is no, absolutely and definitely no. I am 64 and I have experienced this sort of attitude many, many times and believe me, I can tell the difference between someone being a miserable old so and so, and someone with a racist attitude. My daughter, who is white, has shopped there many times and has always been treated very well, but the racism was confirmed for me when she told me about her Indian friend who was treated as badly as I was. OK, soxI know there are worse incidents! But as Maeve Binchy said, are we seriously meant to feel better just because we know someone else is worse off? ( She was talking about health, but the same applies here). You yourself will not have experienced this if you are white. How could you? But believe me it exists. It is not the sort of thing that one can report either. There is no crime involved here, but there is a lot of hurt and anger caused by attitudes like these. This is the first time I have said anything publicly. When I was a child, the humiliation and the hurt was hidden away, but now that I am older I talk about it when it happens and maybe if helps.

Antonia If I were you, I would buy some flowers there again, then, when you have taken your change, say something...along the lines of 'every time I shop here you make me feel unwelcome, is there a good reason for this?' You needn't shop there again, but this will make her aware of her stupid attitude.

Antonia I'm sorry you've been hurt and humiliated, I hope you've also met lots of good people without any racist attitudes.

Good suggestion rosesarered and yes, lona, I have met many people who are not racist. Thank you for your support, it really helps.

Antonia, I am so sorry you are still having to endure this ignorance , try to think of the many who are not racists . Remember - all you can expect from a pig is a grunt , hugs X

If you expect racism is behind every unpleasant encounter I expect that's what you'll find. There could be 101 reasons for surly service in a shop. Try rosesered's suggestion. Not everyone is cut out for service with a smile!!

People who experience racism can tell the difference between a grumpy person and a racist Jane,

Anniebach is quite right Jane. At my age I can surely tell the difference. And I do not expect racism in every unpleasant experience. I have been served lots of times in shops where the assistant was quite obviously stressed, too busy or chatting to a friend, to be bothered with a smile and a greeting. That is not racism but quite simply a slightly less than pleasant shopping experience. Racism is when the shop assistant looks at you with undisguised contempt, as well as the treating you with a lack of basic good manners. Racism is when someone sitting next to you on a bus gets up and goes to sit, not in an empty seat, but next to a white person! This has happened to me more than once and is just one tiny part of the casual racism that I have encountered during my life. No one looks for it, it just happens.

I'm sorry too Antonia - it's just not acceptable.

Antonia, are you actually saying that someone didn't want to sit next to you on a bus because you aren't white, and so they got up and sat next to someone who was. How utterly appalling if so.
We all know that this happened years ago but I honestly thought people had now moved forward

Antonia are you new to Gransnet? If so, welcome. Despite the unhappy theme of this thread, and your experiences, it is wonderful to have your honest contribution to the discussion, you sound as if you know what you're talking about.

Antonia, I recognise the experience you describe and I so agree that you can recognise racism by the way the other person looks at you, even if no words are expressed. Although I am white European, as some forms express it, I can get very tan, depending on whether or not I have spent time in Southern Europe, and when I came to first live in Britain in the 70s encountered these situations very often.
I thought this was a thing of the past, however, but in the past few months, there have been a few incidents, even here in London. They usually involve much older people. One woman slapped my hand as I was leaning to pick up a piece of wrapped Cheddar in a well-known supermarket and told me to go back to wherever I came from.

I put it down to the fact that she was old and possibly demented, and moved on.

Granny Ben, yes, that is just what I am saying. To me, this is the kind of casual, non confrontational racism that can happen. It is non-reportable but still hurtful. No one is going to report that someone refused to sit next to you on a bus, it sounds so ridiculous! Grannyknot, yes, I am relatively new here. I mostly read threads but chip in occasionally when I am interested by a thread, and thank you for the welcome!
Rinouchka, I do agree that older people can be quite aggressive towards people they see as different. They grew up in a time when racism was deeply entrenched in British culture and when political correctness was non existent. During the nineties, racism became far less overt, but it was always there bubbling below the surface. At that time it became offensive to give voice to racism. Now, unfortunately, people are beginning to feel freer to voice opinions that were not seen as acceptable a few years ago. I have lived in France for the last 16 years and not experienced a single racist incident here. But the minute I go back to London to visit family then boom, it raises its ugly head again. Because of various health issues, we will be moving back to the UK permanently next year and so I am a bit concerned about being accepted there.

Then choose your area very carefully Antonia if that's possible. I'm quite convinced that some areas of the UK are more racist than others.

I'd like to think where I live is multicultural and glad if it. I certainly hear a wide variety of languages bring spoken in the playground when I pick the GC up and different races are obvious from their skin colour and dress style. And I'm not aware ever of any racial tensions.

But then what do I know really? It's easy to say that when I'm.white.

What i can say is that I don't hear the racist utterances here that I used to hear where I lived before, even shockingly from professionals.

The area is already fixed, Anya. We feel we need to be nearer to our daughters and grandchildren now. One DD lives in London and the other in Harrogate. London was out of the question with house prices being what they are, so we are looking to buy in Harrogate. It is possibly not the best choice! In fact, our elder (white) daughter has already expressed concerns about racism there. It is a beautiful town undoubtedly but there are a lot of wealthy, older, 'blue-rinse' types there, so I don't know how it will be. On the other hand, possible reactions are going to be an unknown quantity wherever we go. A few years ago we spent a holiday in Bath, which I would say has the same type of demographic as Harrogate, and I was not even remotely aware of any racist attitudes. Perhaps the general population is more educated? I really don't know, but I feel that our choice of location had to be swayed more by family than by possible negative reactions. Thank you so much for all your imput. I am actually finding it very cathartic to discuss it. It is not a subject that I talk about usually, even with my sister and brother.

Antonia do not write the greater London area out of the equation, if possible. There is quite a mix of cultures and skin colour even in the outer suburbs, as well as variety of house prices. You won't get as much accommodation, but you might feel more at home.
My elderly, demented woman was the exception rather than the norm.

Antonia I know Harrogate quite well, it's a lovely town ( pricey though!) and think you would be happier there than London.Because there are probably not that many non white people living there, you would not be seen as a threat to anyone, therefore would be more welcomed into any community activities.I do think that is the case in many places tbh.Yes, it's always been considered a rather posh town, but the days of blue rinses are gone ( I hope) Good luck anyway, you can tell us how it all pans out, depending on where you settle down.?

Also, as Rinouchka says, there are the London suburbs to consider ( also still pricey.)

I think there's a lot in what you say Antonia about the level of education in an area, especially among the older generation. Real racism is often the result of ignorance, fear and an ingrained intolerance to difference.

A Chinese friend of ours is moving back from Hong Kong with her three children soon and that is her city of choice (is Harrogate a city?).

I'm glad your finding this cathartic and I'm sure it's helping us too to understand. I was touched when two Muslim friends came to my grandson's funeral in a Christian church and we had an interesting discussion afterwards on different religious traditions and practices around death. But mainly we just discuss mundain things such as grandchildren, recipes or politics .

Just returned from 3 weeks in Cape Town, and learnt so much about the dreadful system of Apartheid - which destroyed my DH's family in 1948- as they were all mixed - part African, part Boer, part Indonesian/Malay, part English - and they were all born different shades and were labelled according to said shade. Visiting District six Museum was heart breaking- and although Apartheid came to an end in 94- it is still very much there in relation to housing, jobs, education, opportunities- with most blacks still living in shanty towns on Mitchells Plains with little hope of ever getting out.

Our grandchildren also have Swiss and French blood, Irish, Scottish, and Indian...

and that is the unfair bit, no-one, but no-one would ever guess or know. Genetic dice - they look Anglo-Irish, and grand-daughter has the blondest of hair and the bluest of eyes- so have other nieces and nephews.

What is so strange in the UK, is that areas with many ethinic minorities are generally NOT racist, and areas with few, are.
I absolutely loved living and teaching in very tolerant and open Leicester- which our relatives in leafy Surrey found 'bizarre'.

Thank you all for your comments, I love reading them and I will let you know how it goes.