Estrangement / Cut off Mum

b0dhi, and all......grandparental alienation is a worldwide epedemic.....see www.aga-fl.org. There may be a meeting in your area, and if not, you will find a lot of information, as well as links to really good YouTube videos. Also check out Dr. Joshua Coleman, a US specialist in parental and grandparent alienation. You are not alone. Hugs.

b0hdiTree - so sorry to hear about your plight. I have a friend denied access to her DS and GCs.

I realise that it may be of little comfort to know that this is happening to other people. As far as coping is concerned, my friend and her husband keep themselves extremely busy all the time so as not to dwell on their feelings. They are also making new wills to leave their DS's share of their estates directly to the GCs.

It is clear that your DD's 2nd husband is very insecure, a control freak and a bully. The world has to revolve around his needs (hence narcissistic) and he has a misplaced sense of entitlement. In truth, he is the one who is not good enough, not you.

I have heard that the best thing to do when faced with "adversity" is to accept it rather than resist it. But before you can accept it, you need to go through the grieving process that you have been going through. Don't be afraid to give vent to your emotions, even though they may seem overwhelming and never-ending.

Allow plenty of time to get all your anger and sadness out of your system and be prepared for it to take as long as it takes. Pamper yourself whenever you can and spend time doing all the things you enjoy (maybe you'll discover some new ones). Don't force yourself to go out or be with other people until you feel ready.

I feel for you and I hope this post helps.

I most Certainly agree with CARAMAC

My son is controlled by the DiL, its not only women who get controlled. There is another thread where estrangement is discussed.

I was so sad and worried to read your post. It must be dreadful for you. I was in an abusive relationship and didn't realise what was happening to me because it was so subtle at first . Your phrase that you can't see your grandchild because he says you're not a good enough person tells me without any doubt that he is a controlling abuser. I imagine he's eroded your daughters self confidence to the point where she's now being controlled totally by him. I came across a book called " Why Charming Men Make Dangerous Lovers". I read it, re read it and read it again in secret of course and it helped me to finally break free. I am a very strong person and if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone. I'd take a chance and post your daughter a copy. I really wish you well . It's terrible.

This is just terrible and my heart goes out to you. There are organisation that can support, advise and if posible help. I don't know how to send a link but if you go into google and type in help with suspected domestic abuse you will then get a choice. From what I read you have done the right thing staying calm and not raising to his bullying behaviour but do get help and support.

bOdhiTree, as you see, you are not alone. I know it's very distressing and I've cried rivers just as I'm sure you have. Tears are good as they help to let go of the pain. For quite a long time I was shut out of my DGS's life, but slowly it has improved. Hang in there and tell to us about it. 'Talking' is a therapy in itself. I haven't had counselling, but can see it's probably a good idea.

I would say, keep a journal and when he's much older, you may be able to share it with your GS to show how you've always loved him. Send birthday cards etc. During the bleakest times I was saving things for my GS like shiny new coins in a tin; first day covers of new stamps; sometimes I treated him to a coin from the Royal Mint. When things became more 'normal' I was able to give them to him. I visit about 3 times a year as they live abroad

I'm going soon and my daughter has already said, 'No making a fuss of DGS. Only when (SIL) law is here Mum, not when it's just us.' ARRRRGH! I'm his grandma for goodness sake!

SIL doesn't like that my DGS gravitates towards me. He watches in the car mirror to see whether we're having a cuddle and a giggle in the back of the car. I keep up a commentary about the 'educational' things we see from the window.

SIL had a very unhappy childhood and has commented how lucky my daughter is that she's always been loved her whole life, and I sometimes wonder if he's jealous. I get it, but when he himself was extremely ill last year, I hugged him and stroked his head just as I would a child. He didn't complain about that.

What can we do? We must stay strong and as positive as we possibly can, stick together and support each other. Hugs to you for being brave. xx

She may well be in an abusive relationship and unable to have a relationship with you at the moment. You have done all you can, focus on your own needs, engage positively with life, who knows what the future will bring.

I felt so sad reading your post,*b0dhiTree*. Your daughter must be missing you too. Do you have any contact with her - text, email, cards etc? Perhaps you could arrange to just meet up with her? I'm sure she'll know she can always count on you. Big hugs and

focus on your own needs, engage positively with life, who knows what the future will bring. Very good advice, what else can be done.

Yorkshoregirl quite right what you have said

Araabra you haven't a clue what your talking about!

Boddhitree I'm in the same sad boat as you, so completely understand your situation Hope you get your DD&GS back soon, hope I get mine back too!

Araabra

Focus on your own needs

Is that not your interpretation of 'toxic.'

I've just read through some of your opinions on the AIBU thread.

I am sorry I forgot the attribute LumpySpacePrincess "Focus on your own needs, engage positively with life, who knows what the future will bring."

Quite wise advice, that.

I understood that you were quoting another poster.

However, having read your posts on the other thread, it would seem that focusing on one's own interests would be counter productive to being a good GP.

Just an opinion..

Fairydoll "it would seem that focusing on one's own interests would be counter productive to being a good GP."

I disagree. Good GPs, in my opinion, have many outside interests and ways to fill their time, GC being a mere part of a full life.

There are some very strange responses to this sad and difficult problem, and I wonder why.

I might be wrong, and hold my hands up if I am, but a woman who has previously had a close relationship with her mother (and presumably other family members) doesn't suddenly CHOOSE to abandon it. The coincidence of a marriage (and everything was presumably fine before it) with the withdrawal of contact points almost 100% to emotional abuse by the husband. That realisation must be terrible for a mother and grandmother to bear, but it happens more often than we know.

To the poster who said the daughter had colluded in the decision, I am sorry, but abused and bullied women don't get a choice to collude or not, they simply daren't or can't go against their husband's wishes.

But what can be done? Bodhi, do you have any contact with other people where your DD lives? Would it be worth a phone call to someone you feel comfortable talking to about this? I know it's five hours away, but could you envisage making a surprise visit on a day when you know your DD will be home alone and see if you can talk to her. Don't ring her, cos the phone will likely record the fact,and that could cause issues.

Now, all is not lost, necessarily. Your daughter needs to realise for herself that this situation is not "normal", and therefore needs to seek help for herself. The best people to contact are Womens Aid, so arm yourself with their phone number before you visit. They will give her advice on what to do if she eventually realises that this relationship is toxic. But as I said, all is not lost. If her husband is basically a decent man, he might not realise that his behaviour is controlling or abusive. He might be not a very strong person himself and not coping with normal behaviour. He TOO can be helped to realise how his behaviour is unhealthy and unkind for everyone. It will take time, I know, a close friend of mine is 5 years along the route of sorting out her marriage, but her husband is a changed man, and although they have been separated for most of those 5 years, the hope for the marriage survival is great. He had cut her off from her family, her friends, due to his own insecurity. He has learnt a lot through counselling and advice and fingers crossed that this year will be the year he moves back in with her and their children.

But first, the wife had to recognise that controlling behaviour is not "loving" at all, and she needs to be strong enough to say so, whilst still affirming that she loves her man, as my friend did.

I hope it all works out for you. Such horrible things usually do given time. But I know you don't want to miss out on a grandparent's or parent's pleasure, and I hope you don't for long.

Much love and sympathy, but stay strong and calm, offer what advice you can, and then step back.

If the DO seek help you will be much needed as a shoulder to cry on or a person to scream at during the times when it all gets very hard for everyone, and you will have to be a rock for your DD. Never take sides, this man must have good points for your daughter to have chosen him, but sadly they aren't surfacing right now.

And no, you are not an unsuitable grandparent whatever than implies.

Good luck.

Araabra, I think you lack any experience of people with REAL life problems. Not everyone is strong, capable, confident enough to fill their lives with so much that GC are almost unimportant, and you will probably say you didn't mean that, but that's certainly how it comes across. I don't see my GC very often, 3 or 4 times a year, and lead a very full and active life, but they, and their parents are nevertheless the most important things I have. I would drop any of my hobbies immediately if they needed me. It's called love.

Hello Everyone. I can't thank you all enough for your comments. I cannot contact them in anyway. My son was expecting his first baby and I decided to try and build bridges. I sent three postcards (sil opens her letters) to arrive when she would, hopefully, see them first. The first simply said 'Miss you, love you, love Mum'. The other two brief message about a film I saw and the last about a bike ride and added 'hoe you are well'. It backfired! He saw them and after I sent 3 he reported me to the police for harassment! Legally 3 pieces of unwanted communication whether the recipient tells you they don't want them or not is a criminal offence. I have no idea what lies sil told the police for them to act BUT the police asked my daughter twice to write a note saying she didn't want any contact from me and SHE REFUSED! What does that tell me? I haven't been served with a Personal Information Notice (PIN) but I would if I contacted her. I am 70 and I have only had one speeding ticket and two parking tickets in my life I am not going to risk a criminal offence. It was very traumatic I am doing positive things and my son is now expecting a second child and I love having a good relationship with my DIL and son and even better they live close. So very good to know I am not alone. x

Madmeg

I agree. I don't think Araabra has any real experience of this topic.

It's ok to offer text book advice, but that's all it is.

There are many grandparents (including myself) who have full and active lives but their children and grandchildren are also paramount. As you say - it's called love.

I live in Canada. My sister, who lives in the UK, sent me this article.
"Petitioners for the grandparents' rights will head to Parliament tomorrow to lobby for a change in the law. Currently, if a marriage breaks down, grandparents are faced with the prospect of never seeing their grandchildren again, unless they embark on a lengthy court process.
If you have you been separated from your grandchildren, we would love to speak to you, so why not get in touch? Drop us an email to [email protected] with your name and contact number."

I have some recent experience of this situation so can truly empathise. I wrote extensively on this site and received so many helpful and supportive responses which helped me deal with a terrible time. Like you, I had been close to my DD and was very involved with my DGS so the arrival of a controlling man into their lives caused havoc and I was heartbroken when she cut off all contact because he he didn't like me, DH, DS or any of DD's friends. My DD is no fool but this man managed to - somehow- get into her head and I suspect that is what has happened in your case.
What did I do? Well, I tried to engage with the BF; invited them for meals etc. Nothing. I spoke to DD on her own but she was very defensive and he didn't like her meeting me alone. After she ceased contact I wrote to her apologising for any offence I had caused ( difficult to do) but still nothing. I tried to get on with my life but I just knew that things were wrong so I made an application under Clare's Law and it transpired that BF had a police record for Domestic Abuse. DD eventually ended her relationship but it was still tricky as he did not take it well. A few weeks on, I now know the extent of the abuse but there is probably going to be a court case so will not elaborate. DD and DGS are currently living with us and relationships are - slowly- being rebuilt.
Throughout the dark months, I never totally gave up hope so please don't despair. Look up Clare's Law- the police were very supportive. Lean on friends both in real life and on here. I wish you all the best?

What you describe in your post Madmeg can also happen to men who marry controlling and emotionally abusive women.

We had an excellent relationship with our son until his marriage and when you said "That realisation must be terrible for a mother and grandmother to bear", you expressed it exactly. It's terrible for mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers.

I hope one day that our ES son recognises that this situation isn't normal. Mr. S. comes from a large family; there are several aunts, uncles and cousins that our ES has cut out of his life and the lives of his children. Two great grandmothers as well as grandparents and her own parents seem to be 'in' one minute and 'out' the next. He remains in contact with his brother but I can see that relationship becoming increasingly strained.

His eldest child is 5, maybe he's already made the connection that uncle ....'. mummy and daddy are daddy's mummy and daddy because they're brothers. Our dear son has told us that he's already had a conversation with his brother regarding what he'll say about us if either of those children ask him. He'll say he loves us very much, that we are kind and loving people who gave him a wonderful childhood; that we were and are great parents.

Not something our ES or his wife are going to want their children to be told.

Madmeg "Not everyone is strong, capable, confident enough to fill their lives with so much that GC are almost unimportant, and you will probably say you didn't mean that, but that's certainly how it comes across."

"I would drop any of my hobbies immediately if they needed me. It's called love."

You are spot on, I didn't say our GC are unimportant. We have full, active, busy lives. We do drop activities when need be, not for every tittle. I expect GPs who have a life outside GC weather small storms with ease.

Merely an opinion.

"weather small storms with ease". You cannot seriously be suggesting that being denied any contact whatsoever with ones GC is a small storm Araabra

Small storm? No, I don't think so, Araabra! I would be devastated if I were cut out of my GC's lives! No small storm that!

But I get the advice to keep busy and fill life with other things. I doubt it would ever fill the void, but it's bound to help a little.