Estrangement / Cut off Mum

Surprised at the vulgarity and nastiness of your 06.34.08 post. Nina after such a great previous post. Why should anyone think that's worth lots of emoticons?

It's almost like joining in the playground fight.

It's rare for me but I've come to realise that occasionally online, it's the best way to answer purely because I myself get fed up of posts from those who see themselves as perfect while lording it over others.
To be honest, I don't spend a great deal of time on forums. When I do, it's with the hope I can make a difference in the life of some poor lost soul looking for comfort.
I have no problem telling those who make comments otherwise to either put up or shut up.

If that makes me wrong in some way well I don't believe I'm remotely as vulgar or rude as some on here.

Anya

Have you never seen 'vulgar' and cruel posts on an estrangement thread by posters who are not themselves estranged? Like a gang of vultures they swoop in and attack those in pain.

That sort of behaviour is reminiscent of playground tactics.

I can (just about), understand that gut reaction nina but what I don't understand is the mindless lynchmob-mentality of the responses.

Or thar 'they did it first' or 'they deserve it' mentality.

FFS rise above it.

Fair enough. What this shows me is that while my intentions are always good in trying to help others, the estrangement topic is unhealthy in itself and it does trigger pain and anger. If this is triggered further by those who are not estranged and therefore don't need to comment on an estrangement thread but open their mouths anyway, they should prepare for a fiery response.
But in any case, this is a timely reminder for me to not be brought back into the dark hole of estrangement. Life above it is far brighter. I just feel so sorry for others and hope my posts have in some way been a comfort.

Cheerio, stay strong and keep on moving forwards in your own lives. xxx

Good post nina

If we ever get to meet for that coffee you might find we have more in common than I choose to post on a public forum.

For sure Anya. I do need to get off this thread though. When you're on a straight path taking your forwards, it's best not to take any circular detours.

Keep looking up everyone. x

Sounds as if there's still some bitterness in you, Nina. But I guess it will always be there a little bit. (((Hugs)))

About the "other" mil/granny - Fortunately, my dd has a lovely mil and yes, she and I have become friends. But if dd or sil found her toxic or difficult, I don't see how I could ever have become friends with her. And if they finally decided to co, I wouldn't think of interfering. Not my place, imo, and not worth risking my own relationship with dd and family because maybe co mil would become my friend!

If I thought they were overreacting and that, as such, it wasn't fair to the gc, I might gently ask them about that. But that's all. I don't like the idea of my gc "losing" loving relationships (different if the other gm was cruel or abusive to my gc, etc.), so I don't think I would see it as a "win" for me. But I would trust that dd and sil know his mum better than I do and that they had made what they felt was the best decision for the family.

Would I feel for the co mil/granny? Of course. But I wouldn't say a word about that to dd and sil. They're adults, they make their own decisions and don't take advice from me unless they ask for it (which is rare). So, imo, all I would be doing if I defended mil is risking my own relationship with them.

Norah, I get that your sils made the decision to co their mums and that your dds are only co from them AS A Result of this. However, from what Iv seen, dils CAN decide to co mil if only from themselves. IOWs, dil can decide, "I'm not speaking to or spending time with mil anymore.' Her dh can still visit with his mum and maybe even bring the gc, if any, to see her, but dil can go totally nc.

In one or two cases here, Iv seen where ds visits his mum, but dil AND the gc are co. Maybe ds and dil made the decision together to keep the kids away from mil, but who knows?

You're right, of course, that only ds/dd can co their own mum from their whole nuclear family, including themselves. Dil/sil might influence that choice, but, ultimately, only ds/dd can make that decision (different if they're victims of spousal abuse, of course).

For what it's worth, for 10 years I have read all forums, all comments, websites, blogs ect that we all do when we find ourselves in this situation. Whatever the reasons, whether we know or admit we know why family members have made a decision to estrange themselves from us, the fact is that people are hurting.
Without exception whenever someone posts looking for help and support there will always be those who feel it necessary to jump onboard and to add to the hurt.
That is what the land of anonymity of the internet has brought us.
There are no answers to this deeply emotive subject, all sides believe they are right and it is difficult to see how to heal that.
All we can try and do is to be there for people when they ask for help, we as individuals can do nothing about peoples situations but can hold out a hand of friendship.
It is not our place to judge anyone.
The written word is so often misunderstood,and when we are feeling vulnerable it seems as though the whole world is against us, when all we need to know is that we are not alone, and that there are people to help and support.
Life may not have turned out quite the way we thought it was going to, but we owe it to ourselves and those who do love and care about us to live it to the full.

Starlady, I wouldn't say I'm bitter. But I am fragile like all the other estranged parents and one problem we all have is that we can rarely offload. It's such a painful, isolating subject that we just can't share it. If we do, we run the risk of judgement and unfair treatment.
The reason we can't offload is because we don't want to burden friends or family and we also often feel we can't say anything without incurring retaliation or further wrath.
Consequently it builds up and as we internalise all the pain, at some point a trigger will burst the bubble and out it will pour.
I have seen some posters glorify in how wonderful their family life is on estrangement threads and then try and offer unqualified advice to a bereft parent such as 'have you revisited the part you played in the estrangement'? In other words, are you sure it's not you that's to blame?
I can tell you that having run groups for parents, being cut off because they said no to handing out more money, is not the parents fault.
Needless to say, this kind of advice often has the reverse effect of not helping very much at all, well meant as it may have been.
So it's not bitterness, more that a vulnerable heart has been further wounded with a less than sensitive comment.

Minty, nice post. Thankyou xx

I hope I've spoken for all estranged parents locked in the spiral of untold grief. xxx

Thank you,Nina for your posts and pep talk..today I am in that dark place.

For those who have never experienced this grief then be VERY grateful.

I have experienced the death of a grand child and was grief stricken,that was understandable.

This cruel grief is terrible.

You have been able to turn this situation around,Nina,and put your self out to give a glimmer of hope to people such as me.

Thanks again,

NS

Anna and Norah a question. Are either of you estranged from your don or daughter?
If not why do you post on here about something you have no personal experience of.

I definitely typed son and not don, this keyboard has a mind of its own!

Well I haven't been on line for a couple of days and obviously have missed some interesting posts.

ninayour posts have been both informative and supportive. Unfortunately the subject of estrangement never fails to attract unpleasantness from some posters, usually from those who are not in the same situation. I've been about posting on GN about estrangement for more than 4 years and sadly it's always been the same.

Now having been made aware of the dynamics of your DD's families regarding their parents in law, I understand why you post some of the things that you do norah although I don't understand what comes across as an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality.

IMO unless an AC has been in an emotionally and/or physically abusive relationship with their parents to cut them out is reprehensible. Even more so when they deny their children their GP's.

The attitude of some posters not wanting to comment to a s.i.l. or d.i.l. for such a cruel act for fear of damaging their own relationship speaks volumes. Time and time again I read of parents keeping their opinions to themselves, walking on egg shells, almost living in fear of doing or saying the wrong thing in case they too find themselves CO. Doesn't that demonstrate the fragility of their own relationships? Is that why those of us who are estranged are so cruelly berated because if it's happened to us it could happen to them too?

We have two adult sons; estranged from one for over 4.5 years and a terrific relationship with the other. We don't behave any differently toward our DS because his brother's cut us out, we're not afraid to express our opinions, we're not afraid of being the people that we are and always have been in case we lose him too because our estrangement isn't our fault.

Almost 5 months in our new home, our lives have improved beyond our wildest dreams. We are at peace, we're happier than we've been since this nightmare began and happier than either of us would have thought possible.

I no longer need the level of support I was so desperate to find when I first came on GN but I know I'll find it when I am in need. I continue to post to keep in touch with and support the wonderful friends that I've made here.

Anya I don't understand the "mindless lynch mob mentality" of posts directed to those that are estranged from those that aren't.

Northernsoul I'm so sorry that you find yourself in that 'dark place' today; it's a terrible place to be. I hope that tomorrow you'll find a little.

Thank you,Smileless.
As ever your posts are both supportive and full of common sense.
You and I were cut out at the same time.

It's been and still is a rocky road.My husbands health is not good and he's been hospitalised twice,both in emergencies.
What he has been diagnosed with may have consequences for the grandsons we are cut off from,my daughter may be the carrier of this gene.

I have written many letters,texted,emailed and phoned,the response being the Great Wall of Silence.
We are now blocked on their phone.
How can I impart this serious information to her?

NS

Is there someone who you could give this information too who could then pass it on to your ED NorthernSoul? Of course it's imperative that she be made aware but unless there's someone she will listen too, there's not much you can do.

If only these AC would take a step back, see the bigger picture, the one that isn't all about them, perhaps they'd think again about cutting us out.

Thanks for your reply Smileless.
In the early stages before being totally cut off,my dear sister acted as an intermediary.
But she has become deeply saddened and annoyed that we have been treated this way.Along with other friends and family who are disgusted at the treatment we have received.
It was not the way our daughter was brought up.
So there we are...

Have just read on another thread about the success of your magic shoes.

Also my condolences to your family.
That's when you want a family to be together.

NS

Northern Soul, glad if you've found some comfort in my posts. I have just started a new thread called How To Heal From Estrangement. I hope you might be able to contribute. xxx

NorthernSoul, imo, when someone cos another, no matter what the reason, there are often consequences. One of them may be that your ed doesn't get important information. That's not on you, that's on her.

I know you're worried about your gc, of course. Are you blocked on anything but ed's phone? If you can message her by email or fb - whatever way you can reach her, maybe you can give her this crucial information there. She might not be kind enough to answer/thank you, but, at least, you'll know she has the information if it's ever needed. Your conscience will be clear. The rest is up to her.

Anya I cant agree about Ninas post...sometimes some very straight no mincing words talking is needed ...my "celebrate" was simply to support her in that straight talking! I am continuously surprised by the apparent somewhat self satisfied comments of some posters regarding estrangement ...and have also seen where, if that is challenged, CO parents can't win as responses are often a sarcastic implication that the CO parent isn't listening/acknowledging their failure/willing to admit their fault in the process etc etc ...the insensitivity (as opposed to honest and constructive comment) is mindblowing at times!

Your later comments are also interesting and thought provoking, thankyou

Luckylegs9

Yes, my sons.in.laws are co from their mums. One was co before my dd met him. And one is recent. The other 2 co some time ago. It is fascinating, I can clearly see what I perceive went wrong. It seems to me mils were not ones to follow rules to the children.

And yes, I have opinions on what people do to cause their own issues. Like everyone here has opinions on topics.

I don't think anyone would be wise to try to tell their ac what to do regarding their spouse co his mum. Really no business except the person related to mum (sil).

Spot on Starlady "But if dd or sil found her toxic or difficult, I don't see how I could ever have become friends with her. And if they finally decided to co, I wouldn't think of interfering. Not my place, imo, and not worth risking my own relationship with dd and family because maybe co mil would become my friend!"

I'll never tell my daughters what to do in their relationships, why would I stir trouble.

"can clearly see what I perceive went wrong. It seems to me mils were not ones to follow rules to the children."

That is one of the most patronising and blinkered statements I have ever read. You have said that you have never met these mothers-in-law, yet you feel entitled, purely through second/third hand opinions, to lay the blame at their door. Unbelievable.