Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

Bugsy. May I ask if you are estranged from any of your children or their partners?

As said before, there are a myriad reasons for estrangement, some justifiable of course, but many remain a mystery. I'm afraid I cannot agree with you that a selfish adult child would remain in contact for babysitting, money etc. Yes, that seems logical but when did 'logic' ever play into this type of situation?

With respect to partners cutting off their inlaws, the mother in law/daughter in law relationship can be the most difficult/challenging for some. Don't take my word for it. Psychologist, Deanna Brann, has written an excellent book on the subject - Reluctantly Related, based on her 35 years of experience.

All that I'm pointing out fairydoll is that that the people on here have built up such dillusions about their estranged children that they'll find it impossible to reconcile.
They seem to think that their EC are horrible, selfish people who have taken joy in cutting them off and stopping them seeing their grandchildren.when in fact, their children have likely felt it absolutely necessary (for reasons unknown but reasons no doubt)to do this. Although I would also bet that the EC at some point prior to the estrangement, did try to explain what the issues where and the parent has chosen not to listen.

I can't imagine that any of their EC are sat at home joyous because of the estrangement & as difficult as it is for people on here at Christmas/birthdays etc - it will be equally as difficult for their EC. Nobody actively chooses these horrible situations and I bet that nobody wants to cut their parent off either. Stop blaming your EC, stop blaming their husbands and look inwards. if everybody did that then maybe a point will come when reconciliation is possible.

Sending a letter to tell your EC that your having a big op will achieve nothing as the EC will only reconcile once the real issues are resolved but I bet you that the EC will be sat at home, on the day of the op worrying about the EP - parent/child bonds never really break but sometimes it becomes too difficult to make a relationship work.
I don't know the author you refer to but she isn't the first psychologist with vast experience to write about in law relationships - theres tonnes of books on the subject. these relationships are difficult but most people make them work. common sense should tell you that alienating your in law will lead to problems with your child somewhere down the line.. backing off from your in law/ trying to see your child without them present will never lead to good relations especially once children are born and spouses tend to spend most of their free time together as a family.

finally, cutting off a parent is not a selfish act... I've no idea how you can claim that it is as it brings the EC no benefit whatsoever.

I do hope Celeb and Smileless aren`t reading this - it would be such a shame if their well deserved break was spoilt by them feeling they have to defend themselves

I've not said anything which either should feel the need to defend. Especially not smileless as she's the exception to most of my comments - from the posts I've read of hers I feel her attitude is different to the rest & real hope that one day her EC will make contact and they'll both be in the right place to reconcile.
I'm not attacking them anyway,but I just feel this thread is full of misplaced bitterness

Definition of bitterness - "anger and disappointment at being treated unfairly" I would argue that it is not unreasonable to feel bitterness under these cirumstances. For example many of us have been excused of doing things which we absolutely have not done.
I would agree that it is sensible to try to move on from bitterness - which is why I do not think it is wise to keep looking inward as you advise - better to try to look outwards even if this results in some parents realising that their adult children are not the nicest people. No-one comes to this conclusion happily but I believe that for some (including Smileless) it was reaching this point that enabled them to start living again

if you read this thread objectively, you may think that most of you definitely aren't looking outwards.
Your bitter that your children have cut you out but where is your compassion for your children, now without parents? mainly raising children without support from the very people that should have been the most supportive!
they've cut you off for a reason & there maintaining no contact as they feel those issues cannot be resolved. The whole situation is extremely sad but I feel very sorry for your children. I don't believe there the horrible people you make them out to be - There probable in as much emotional turmoil as you are.

... just to add I also don't believe that you parents are all completely responsible for your estrangement. there must have been fault and poor communication on both sides. But the way you speak on this thread saddens me

I daresay some of them are in emotional turmoil. But if parents repeatedly ask for an explaination for the estrangement and for an opportunity to put things right - but are always met with a brick wall what are they meant to do?
It is hard to feel sympathy for adult children who don`t have the support of their parents when those parents have tried extremely hard to give that support but always been rebuffed.

My own situation is a problem with DIL - when she is asked by my son why she won`t see us or let the children see us her only explaination is "because I don`t want to and I don`t want them to" We would very much like to help with childcare but are not permitted

Bugsy555, I think you are on here to cause trouble. You are the one being judgemental, don't be sad for us but I wonder why someone that is not estranged is trolling through old posts on an estrangement support thread, to offer no support just say what awful people we must be for our chikdren not to want us, that's sad.

to be honest Eddicat I find your situation the oddest of all.. From what I understand, your in contact with your son but not his wife and she won't let you see the kids - he doesn't agree but won't stick up for you with her..... eh?!

Your son is likely saying one thing to you and another to his wife.

If he wants to leave his wife then he should,money worries etc are just an excuse all of that can be resolved and it's never right to stay together for the sake of the children.. if he's worried about her withholding access then he shouldn't be - the courts are really supportive of fathers now (not grandparents but fathers have equal rights).

I think he's either playing you the fool or completely spineless and if she's as vindictive as he makes out then why is she not stopping your son seeing you too - hmmm

Showing your true colours now Bugsy

This thread (& others begore) have been on this forum for years and is very hard to ignore. I on my commented because of the very bad advice given to previous poster but that snowballed to me giving my honest opinion on your situations too.... sorry! Although I stand by everything I said

I've just been honest all along. you don't have to agree with me

oops I can't type on this phone.. but as I was saying you don't need to agree with me and I won't post after today but I really feel your going the wrong way about these estrangements

one final thought before I log off forever... life's too short, forgive, forget & let go of the bitterness. I hope your all reunited one day - if that day comes and you need to say a million sorry' s then say them sincerely - whatever it takes because you'll truly be happier with your children in your lives

Sorry you are to leave us Bugsy555 as I was thinking of asking you to be an intermediary between our daughter and and the rest of her loving family who hurt and bewildered by her and our sil actions of cutting us all out over the course of 4 years...you have missed a great opportunity in broadening your knowledge of estrangement!

Would love to be in Harrogate and having a glass of red with S and C.

Good wishes to you all.

Bugsy

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However your posts are rather judgemental of situations that you have clearly have no experience of, obviously.
Your criticisms are quite general but you should be aware that everyone's circumstances are different. You know nothing of Eddiecats circumstances and yet you wade in with your opinion.

You have not answered my polite question 'Are you estranged from any of your adult children or their partners?'

The old saying ....Walk A Mile In My Shoes springs to mind.

Your 'final thought' so was 'original' Bugsy. Can't believe none of us have ever considered it before. Wow!!

The reason people tend to cut themselves off from the whole family, as opposed to the one/two people they have issues with is that families take sides. if there's a dominant mother that takes issue with her vhild/their spouse then she will gossip with the rest of the family and the EC is left with no choice but the distance from everybody. it doesn't indicate that the EC was somehow unable to maintain relationships with anybody it's almost as though he/she was bullied out of the family.

Good wishes to you too Northernsoul & hope you take comfort in knowing that you have your whole family supporting you.

Fairy - thanks for your remark - I`m not bothered by Bugsy`s comments- I know why son and don`t need to justify his actions to her.

Obviously I mean "my son". Everyone`s typing is going to pot this evening

Yep Eddiecat. We all know our own kids pretty well....and they're all different.
Different personalities, intelligence, experiences, expectations etc etc. and they estrange themselves for lots of different reasons. There simply isn't a 'one size fits all.'

Like you, I am in touch with my son but not his partner. We exist on different planets (I have yet to figure out how far out in space she is). If she told me it was raining, I would have to look out of the window to check it actually was.
Can't deal with her crap issues.

Bugsy, since I'm not estranged, I don't want to get into the middle of an argument between you and estranged gps. I just want to point out that it's not so "odd" for a dil to cut her mil out of her life, while dh/ds still sees his mum. Iv heard of it before. It's a way, I think, for adil to remove herself from the scenario, without causing dh/ds to do the same. Not ideal, perhaps, but less painful than being fully co.

It's sad, imo, when dil won't agree to having the gc visit mil. Idk why this happens. Maybe it's just to spite mil - or dh if the marriage is having problems. Or perhaps she worries that mil will talk against her in front of the kids though I think most mils/gms love their gc too much to do this to them. Idk. But Iv heard of that before, too - sad, but nothing "odd" about it.

Eglantine, I can see where dil's family history of cos is scary. But I doubt her mum co the elder daughter just because of one incident. It probably was the last of a string of issues between them over the years. You don't really know the dynamics involved, so please don't let it color your relationship with dil. "Don't borrow trouble," as they say.

Smileless and Celeb, your meeting sounded delightful, as late as it was! Hope you have a great time!

Sorry, that should read "a dil," not "adil."

Hi everyone. We've just finished breakfast and are about to pack and go our separate ways. It's been the most amazing experience meeting Celeb and Mr. C. one that will never be forgotten and sure to be repeated.

Great posts over the last couple of days ladies. buggsy, regarding your post about Yogagirl's relationship with her eldest GD; she was there when her daughter gave birth to her and as they lived with her for sometime it's perfectly reasonable and understandable that she is at the forefront of her mind.

I find it ratherwhen I read posts that are so judgemental of parents and GP's who are estranged. You have put forward various possible scenarios that can result in parents being CO but none are applicable to the posters here. It was particularly cruel and unnecessary to tell eddie that her son may be playing her for a fool and I can't understand why you or anyone would wish to make such a comment.

This is primarily a support thread and because it's about estrangement there are always a mix of emotions on show; grief, anger, heartbreak, bitterness, love, laughter and compassion.

I agree that life's too short and I'm not alone in trying to let go (which seems to be getting easier), and forgiving (not so easy and definitely a work in progress) but forgetting!!! You really think it's possible to 'forget' the lies that have been told, the pain that you've been through, the sense of utter despair and the belief that you mean and are worth nothing? The you aren't estranged buggsy; you have no idea what it's like to be.