Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

Smileless she is in my prayers today. Say hello (if appropriate) when you speak to her next.

*eddiecat. AnyaNo it's not a real party . I'm just pitying myself. Over here people recognize anniversaries and our family always has. They can't forget the dates because we put it on the calendars we make the family along with everyone in the family's birthdays.
Yogagirlyou are correct. I have seen mom's who are really mean to their AC with horrible remarks and demands and their children give them so much attention and would never cut them off. Maybe we give too much and they know they can take advantage of us and we will still be there.
Everyday I'm finding that I'm turning into a mean old crabby lady. I don't do things for my family expecting a return but geez... a phone call... a text. Is that really too much to ask for?

We use the expression here too Rhinestone. I'm surprised you haven't heard it before Anya. Not in Rhinetone's case I'm sure, but it usually refers to people who seem to enjoy wallowing in self pity.

You're not turning into a "mean old crabby lady* R. It is hurtful when you don't get so much as 'phone call on a special day.

It is good that our sons haven't fallen out due to our estrangement with the youngest *Norah. It's very sad when sibling relationships break down as a result of parents being CO as Celeb and Yogagirl can testify too.

Oh dear Northernsoul I have to confess to not liking Perth very much. If it wasn't for DS and lovely d.i.l. I wouldn't even think about going back.

I will of course Sparkly.

What a great thread this is, so caring, loving and supportive. None of us would choose the estrangements in our lives, but without them there wouldn't be this thread and we wouldn't have one another.

Just spoken to Mr. C. and she's still in theatre. It's a big op so only to be expected.

Anya - sorry - I hadn`t read Rhinestone`s post properly and thought you were having a go at her - which you obviously weren`t! I`m having a bad day - just ignore me

Norah, not for the first time, I wonder why you are on this forum whilst you are in the unique position of having four families to yourself as all four of your daughter are no contact with their in laws, how must those four families feel! One I could understand, but four,.If you have granddaughters they must think this is normal behaviour. What if grandsons if they marry. I have not left my granddaughter out of my will, you haven't because you are no contact. By being on here you can see how we that are estranged feel, it is not easy to get advice from someone in your position.

Whether intentional or not, your posts always come across as smug and patronising Norah. You obviously haven't a clue how the pain of estrangement affects one's entire life, and destroys one's soul. Without personal experience, empathy is difficult, but a little compassion is something else entirely.

Much love to you all. I don't post much as nothing has changed, or is likely to.....at least not any time soon. My granddaughter will soon be four, and I last saw her when she was just nine months old. My son, however, remains the same loving respectful son he has always been. The She Devil will never change that.

Thanks for updates Smileless Celeb should be out of theatre now for her &

Rosy love to you too, I do hope you get to see your DGD soon, it's so hard isn't it! reminders everywhere

NS I do keep my thoughts and feelings to myself, my dds and sils have no knowledge from me to how I view their situations. I never gave much thought to their ways, I suppose because it is not a part of my own life. I am not a person to upset the status quo or pry.

When I post here that dd1 never met sils family I really thought nothing of it, they live a great distance to us, and he never saw them after he left home (dd1 told before they married). But it was a stir here and then I thought about it.

I only know bits and bobs, nothing really substantial. But to my limited view sil1 must have had a fall out with his dad about uni costs, his mum sided with his dad? About 5 years later sil2 had a fall out with his mum about quite old uncle, I think it was about money. Thusly, my view, it was money for both, but I probably have missed other things. I know ggc were a part of the problem for sil2 and his mum as strange as that is to read?

My 2 last dd are much younger, a whole other generation to my older dds. When sil3 had his job, his mum must have objected when the baby was born. I heard dd3 say to her older sisters what work sil3 did was not mils affair. Last sil4, it was recent and I can only guess it was to the baby birth from a bit I heard by sil2. I do not know if any of the co are permanent.

I know that no dds care about remainders of our estate, that is why we want to give to all dds, gc and ggc equally. And that is not well thought, here in this estrangement group. That made me wonder if remainders was another bit and bob in my sils' estrangements.

Norah Sharing ones estate equally IS well thought of here, IF all AC are in our lives & haven't CO us, and all on here have said that GC will inherit.

Rhinestone,Eddie and all who are feeling down,it's ok to mad,sad and hurt for a while..have a cry and shout if you need to.
Say out loud you are a good and decent person.
Give yourself a treat..you deserve it.

Feel like we are sitting waiting for news,so whilst we are I'll keep the thread open with chatter..

Re Perth,Smileless.
We were there for about 4 nights on a tour of Australia.
The city part is very modern.
What we liked was the Kings Park with the botanical gardens.The huge variety of unusual trees.
Then cruised along the Swan river.

Another trip along the coast to Cottesloe beach.
Love walking along beaches rather than lying on them.
The blue of the ocean with the crashing of waves.

Your experience was rather fraught with Mr S being unwell,am I correct?

Well that's whiled away a bit of time..
Wonder how things are..poor Mr C,he will need some support too.

Thanks for sharing this,Norah.

Just had a message from Mr. C. and Celeb is out of theatre and all is well.

Smileless - thanks for the update - phew!

Norah - at times like Christmas when you are surrounded by your large family does it never occur to you that there are 4 more families who are missing out- and do you never mention this? I know we can`t force our children or in-laws to do anything, but if my daughter and her husband cut off his parents I think I would have to speak out

Thanks,Smileless,you've done a brilliant job.?

*Thanks Smileless*Please tell Celeb's DH we are all sending one big group hug.

eddiecat
but if my daughter and her husband cut off his parents I would have to speak out

Interesting! When I spoke to my sons partner's mother 18 months ago asking her if she knew her daughter had, after sending us a highly insulting email, estranged herself from us the previous year, she said,

'Oh, I don't get involved...'

Guess some parents just can't deal with that sort of thing or feel it's none of their business. If it was my AC insulting his/her inlaws I would want to know what the hell had happened.

Meant to add - this was at a family party where we were all supposed to play happy families. DS's partner, ignored us as expected. Hence I felt I had to speak to her mother.

In particular, if I saw grandchildren being kept from grandparents without a very good reason I would have to say that I did not approve and try to encourage them to think again.
Of course that doesn`t mean they would take any notice of me!

Fairy and Eddie,I think a lot depends on the family dynamics..some families can interact honestly and robustly,may argue things out and either agree or agree to disagree,but still function as a family.That's pretty much how I was brought up.To cut someone out would be unheard of.Say what was on your mind and get over it.
Some would say that would be rather blunt, but at least we didn't carry things/issues on.

Other families are rather different,not wanting to make waves in case they may be not like the resulting tidal wave that would engulf them.

In our own case it suits my daughters in laws very well having this situation.
Whereas If the boot was on the other foot,as it could easily have been,I would have encouraged them against being in a no contact situation as do believe it's harmful to everyone involved.

We can only speak of our own experience and deal with as best we can.

Going to have a cuppa now have got that off my chest.?

Haven't read the last few posts but just wanted to let you know I've had a couple of texts from Celeb. Isn't she amazing5 hours in surgery and she's wide awake and texting.

I asked Mr. C. earlier this afternoon to send her all of your good wishes.

Celeb is a trouper,she has proved how courageous she is.
Here's to a speedy recovery and to Mr C.
??

Isn`t it lovely that a group of women who have never met each other have spent the day thinking about another woman they have never met (especially considering we are all so horrible that family members have decided not to have anything to do with us - perhaps we`re not so bad after all)

I find the situation with my sons partner difficult because all my life I have addressed issues as and when they arose. This woman has caused DH and me a lot of stress (I do realise that this doesn't compare in any measure to being estranged from your own child). Unfortunately she comes from a family who maintain a stiff upper lip and sweep everything under the carpet, so situations remain static and don't get resolved.

My son has actually gone from having jet black hair to prematurely grey in the past two years having to cope with being in the middle of all this.