Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

Fairydoll - I can`t say I feel too sorry for them!

In your shoes Norah, I would think it curious - to say the least - that all my daughters were married to men who were estranged from their parents for one reason or another.

Men who treat their parents with respect and understanding are often those who make the best husbands. They work at relationships.. You say you don't know what goes on inside your daughters' marriages. You may be very surprised.

There is also the fact that you have four daughters who you are not estranged from and, presumably, many grandchildren. Perhaps this fact alone prevents you from being 'interested' in what has taken place in the extended family. Your circumstances are thus very different from the majority of posters on this thread,because you have no need to have contact with your daughters' inlaws. You are happily insulated from having to bother with them

Oh her father knows Norah as does her mother who I was really good friends with before our ES ever met her D. Strange how things go isn't it.

ES's m.i.l. is a very good artist and we used to talk about producing a book for our GC, she'd do the pictures and I'd do the actual story.

They missed their D's wedding as she'd fallen out with them and they married abroad with only myself and Mr. S. there. I talked to her, and asked if she was sure that's what she wanted because it's not easy walking toward your future husband on your wedding day and not being on the arm of your father. I know because that's what I did.

She carried the brides bible I'd carried on my own wedding day and given to her the night before their wedding. She said she didn't want her parents there, we were going to be and that was all she needed.

How things change.

Fairy, To assume all my sils became estranged at once is incorrect. My sils age from mid 50s to 30s. One sil was estranged before dd met him 35 years ago. Youngest sil has recently co. I have had years and years of not knowing my sils' mums and dads, disinterest is quite normal to that. If you think all my sils compared and did the same, one as another, I really think not.

NS felt it might be an other side view. Bob's your Uncle, there it is.

Smileless2012, I think strange is an understatement and I am so sorry for your co.

Thanks Norah.

Norah. I'm not aware that I assumed all your SIL's became estranged at the same time. Nevertheless, they have all become estranged from their parents at some point in their life. I was just saying that for all your daughters to marry men from problematic families is slightly unusual.

Thanks for your input,Norah.
I have been fascinated reading the recent posts.
It proves that there's nowt so queer as folk!?

Family dynamics is an amazing subject.
Each of have our own and when another person or even a pet joins the group it puts another complexity into the situation.

Our sil was sent away to boarding school hundreds of miles away and only returned home at the end of term.
He hated it.He'd previously went to the local primary school.Although he was with his brother,he resented going away from home.(I felt and still feel for him or any child who is sent away from home).His mother wanted this as I believe she too was treated this way.A dysfunctional family I'd say.It's my belief she's behind this estrangement of ours too.(Money again being used methinks)

Think Celeb must be tucked up in bed..mind I don't sleep much whenever I'm in hospital.

Nite nite x

That should read ..he'd previously

I was talking to Mr. S. earlier this evening about a mutual friend and one of his son's who happens to have the same name as our youngest GC who've we've never seen.

The moment I said the name I quite literally dissolved into tears, as did he. It's just so bloody hard isn't it. You hear a name, you say a name, your hear a piece of music and even though you weren't thinking about them, and maybe haven't thought about them for days it's there. That awful pain that words cannot describe and once again you wonder how the hell you can live the rest of your life enveloped with this black cloud of never ending grief.

I think our bodies, hearts and minds store it up and every so often it just seeps out of us to make room for it to store up all over again.

I really think that after a space of time, with a growing family and the demands of juggling home life and work, our estranged adult children, fill their lives with other things, social activities, going out for the odd meal with friends, Running children and their children's friends about and that we the parents are literally forgotten about. They occupy a huge part of our lives, but I suspect, we, very little of theirs. I just wish there was some trusted family member to calm the waters and open the gates to Reconciliation. A lifetime ago, my sister did not speak to my mother, for over two years, my mother tried to get it sorted and couldn't. No one knew what it was about, in the end I got so frustrated with the situation I asked my sister why they had stopped speaking, she couldn't remember, she was very stubborn streak the time, I said how would you feel if you got news something had happened to mom and you were estranged. Eventually, she sent her husband round offering an olive branch and it was not mentioned again. I am not of the opinion that just leaving anything makes it better, sometimes there is just stalemate and the right sort of intervention is needed so that neither side appears to lose face or back down and they can link up. The longer it goes for me, not knowing what goes on and not part of things eats me up more, I have moments frequently that you describe Smileless. My son doesn't want to get involved and I would never ask him, but I know if he did he could calm the waters.

Ah Smileless so sorry for your pain. I'm sure we all do the same, when I hear in the park my GD's name called, I have to look over to the child, or seeing a child of about the same age as they are now, have to sort of study them, from a distance, curious about what a 7&6yr old looks like & how they act & talk etc. As for music, I have some that I play in my classes, some are in Indian & Sanskrit and one is a mother singing to her child that she loves with all her heart, it's an Indian folk song, so of course when that come on I get a lump in my throat, no one else of course knows what the singer is singing about. Then I have another that I just can't play, on the occasions that I've told myself not to be silly and play it in my class, I have to stop it & put another on or I'd burst into tears Again S I wonder too re living with this grief, I sometimes think, if I'd have known at the beginning of this, that 5yrs on I would still be parted from my beloveds......

Smileless - hope you are feeling better today.

Lucky - you mention stubborness and I think this is a very under-estimated character trait. Dealing with someone who is so stubborn that they absolutely will not change their mind or admit they are wrong (even when they know they are) is absolutely impossible. In those circumstances I don`t think any amount of intervention from a third party will help

Luckylegs I think you're right re their busy lives and forgetting us! At the start of this I did ask family members to help, resulting in my losing my S & prv.f.i.l, nasty s.i.l is such a convincing liar, they fell for it, my f.i.l is back & as loving as ever, he has never said sorry or mentioned what was said to him, but when he was cut out too and most viciously for an 83yr old grt grandfather, he then realized what my s.i.l was made of; not nice stuff!

I am thanks eddie it was one of those horrible blips that you don't see coming.

We're in our upstairs living room surrounded by some of the contents of our kitchen diner as we're having our new flooring fitted today. Can't wait to see it finished.

I think our DS has tried Luckylegs but to no avail. Last year, when in an email to our ES I'd told him they were using their children as weapons, DS spoke to him about it. He said it took him ages to concede that it could appear that way but maintained that wasn't what they were doing.

None of us ever envisaged it going on and on. Even at Easter DS told me not to lose hope that his brother would come back one day.

How are you this morning Celeb? Hope you're able to get on line and keep up to date with us here and that you're comfortable and not in any pain.

I have days, times when I feel the estrangement very painfully, and Christmas coming up is the worst time of all, not seeing my estDS and family especially hurts at that time of year. (And I can feel Christmas looming from now on each year).

But a bigger part of me refuses to allow myself to be destroyed, to be overcome, to be made more upset, by the cruel behaviour of my estDS and his family.

celeb I hope you are comfortable this morning...onwards and upwards in your recovery...

That's the bigger part of me too Sparkly and what gets me through the more difficult times.

I'm at GNHQ deleting my posts saying I've gone too far and am 'troll hunting' [mumof] yet they are happy to leave on Buggys post slating me

A story from the other forum I was on;

An estmum got a message from her estS saying they wanted to make-up and would come for Xmas/Thanks giving dinner-as important to Americans as our Xmas is to us, can't remember which one now. So the mum got all excited, bought & cooked all the dinner, presents wrapped, waited & waited, they didn't turn up! She then went on FB to see them all at the dinner table, raising their glasses, saying cheers!

I'mtoo Yogagirl I've just looked back and your posts are still there; page 24 or 25. I'm alsobecause I'm pretty certain you didn't say mumofbadboys was a troll so how can you be accused of 'troll hunting'?

If that had been done to me and I knew exactly where he was I'd have shot round there and shoved his face into his dinner.

Another story;

A father phoned his estD, saying how distraught mum was at not seeing her beloved GC, it got heated & the father said he would be taking things further as this was killing mum & must be upsetting GD. The estD put the taped conversation on u-tube!

Stuff of suicides!!

SmilelessYou said you were on good terms with EDIL 's parents. Did I read that correctly? Have you had any contact with them since the estrangement? It seems they were the ones not wanting to come to the wedding or was it your EDIL that didn't want them?

YogagirlI'm surprised the daughter answered the phone. Every time we have called, texted, emailed or sent a card there is no response.

I wish my DH would either go to apply for visitation or just show up at ESS home. That would be the last thing we could try. Instead whenever I bring it up he says he has made no decision. Meanwhile the boys are getting older and so are we.
Honestly I'm so angry at my ESS that I only want to see the boys. I know this sounds mean but I don't ever want to see him or his wife again.

Smileless,Yoga,Lucky,Sparkly,Eddie et all...??

Often caught blindsided as you were too.
Like dagger to the heart.
Can understand poems and songs that convey this pain.

Just when you think you coping,wham!

My sister played the role of 'Henry Kissinger' but was disappointed at getting nowhere and could see that our daughter was being influenced by his family.

Just a note to those that read and may think we are a sad little group who glory in our situation,that is not the case.

For my part you are welcome to comment and give a constructive view.
Nothing can ever hurt as much as this situation.

I do know what is to have a grandchild die and know of the deep sorrow that fills my heart.But this situation takes it to a different level.

If any good has come of the past 5 years,it is that I have grown in an understanding of people and empathy.
Also that I can stand up to people who wish to hurt others.

This thread appears to be mainly female ( although we don't know for sure) but should any chaps out there who need support you are very welcome.

Now,,what's Celeb up to?

NSx