Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

SparklyWe are all freaked out over here... two hot tempered impulsive men hopefully just posturing like animals . Even people that voted for that man have second thoughts and are sorry. I haven't been this scared since Bay of Pigs incident with Cuba and I was pretty young back then.

Angela, how sad for you. Have you tried sending her a letter when you send her a card, just saying you miss her so much, that if ever she wants to resume contact and say what you can do to remedy the situation as it is making you do unhappy. I know it's all coming from your side but maybe now she has children of her own she might be more open to getting on track without her losing face.

Rhinestone. Bay of Pigs! Wow I remember it too. I was in the Royal Air Force and stationed at HQ Fighter Command. We were on full alert because of Russian involvement and of course it was in the middle of the Cold War. It didn't last long but it was scary at the time. Trump is a nutter - he just opens his mouth and out comes the crap nonsense..
Lovely day down in the Home Counties after the soaking two days ago.

Good post Madgran.

When someone you love cuts you out of their life, refuses any and all contact and denies your very existence, it is a truly traumatic experience. Whether you've been CO by your AC, your partner/husband/wife, your own parent(s), sibling(s), other family members you were close too or your dearest friend.

I can think of all sorts of reasons why for eg an AC may wish to reduce or even greatly restrict the contact they have with their parent(s) but I can think of only 2 that justifies a total CO; physical abuse and emotional abuse.

The same goes for their children, their parents GC. We like many, send cards to our GC for their birthdays and at Christmas knowing that they wont receive them but as it's the only GP thing we can do, we send them.

Mr. S. has friend who along with his wife has been estranged from their son for several years. When it began, they were stopped from seeing their GC for 2 years. Now they see them, they have them to stay and take them for days out. Their son continues to refuse to acknowledge them if he sees them in the street, but allows the relationship between them and their GC to grow.

Not wishing to have a relationship with your parents doesn't justify destroying a relationship between them and their GC. Unless there is a genuine concern that the children would be at risk, to do so is an act of cruelty.

I understand why non estranged parents struggle to believe us when we say we don't know why and why some of us, tired of beating our fists against the door that's been shut in our faces until our knuckles bleed, say no more, give up and walk away.

I don't doubt if I hadn't personal experience of this I'd have been the same. As you've posted Madgran, I too don't understand why some post on a thread clearly here for the support of those living this nightmare, to blame and criticize.

Eglantine you must be looking forward to seeing your DS and d.i.l. when they return from their honeymoon. It's a new chapter in all of your lives and I hope for all of you it will be a happy and fulfilling one.

Angela, if your other D (hope I've got that right) is happy to act once gain as a go between and pass on your cards and letters and this is what you want to do then you should carry on. You can do that and simultaneously begin to accept that sadly your estrangement isn't going to end.

We say so many times on this thread that one size doesn't fit all, that we must all do what we feel is right for ourselves and do what ever it takes to find some peace and get on with our lives as best we can.

No one has the right to judge us for the decisions we take. No one has the right to accuse us of being bitter and angry and to judge us accordingly. Those of us who bear our souls on this thread don't judge one another and those who pop on from time without any insight into what living with estrangement is like, shouldn't judge us either.

Apologies for the long post,

that should have read 'from time to time'

People not affected by this don`t fully appreciate the effect it has on us . We don`t just feel a bit sad - we are emotionally and physically traumatised. My estrangement has been with DIL and grandchildren - I think that if my own son had also cut me off (which seemed very likely for a while) it would have completely destroyed me.
When I first came on this thread- I encouraged others to keep hoping - now I understand completely why this is not always a good thing. I think that at some point you have to draw a line and start planning a different life from what you had been expecting. That doesn`t mean that you stop loving and missing that child/grandchildren

Is it possible that some DIL's withhold grandchildren as a means to bolster their own low self esteem? It gives them 'power' over the grandparents particularly MIL - that they otherwise wouldn't have. Their husbands get drawn into it and often just give in for the sake of a quiet life.
Can only hope they get their comeuppance when they become GP's themselves and their DS and/DIL's cut them off from their grandchildren. I am a firm believer in Karma.

Fairy - in our case DIL wanted power over us - and over DS. Basically she didn`t want him having any relationships she couldn`t control - maybe this was down to her low self-esteem - or just her desire to have her own way. For a long time DS went along with it because he was frightened of losing the children - but he`s had enough now and the marriage is on the rocks

eddiecat

I have always read your posts. 'There but for the grace of God, go I' springs to mind. Fortunately my son lives only 10 minutes away so is able to bring DGS, however, if there was any great distance - as in your case - I'm sure it would be a whole different story.
What is it with these bitches women that they can cause such havoc in a family. I definitely feel my sons partner is a candidate for therapy.

Fairydoll and eddie you're both spot on; a need to control and manipulate and in our d.i.l.'s case coupled with the desire to destroy driven by.

Our ES continues to not just go along with it but to enable and perpetrate it too. There is IMO a deep rooted psychological problem for anyone who enjoys tearing a family apart and is prepared to use their own children as weapons against others who've never done them any harm.

I suppose they're to be pitied but I'm just too hurt andto feel pity for either of them; maybe one day I will.

Rhinestone the threats being made by POTUS just leave me cold.

Smileless well said about estrangement. I would ask that don't grandchildren have a right to know where they come from? With today's interest in Family History and Ancestry, should estAC have the right to cut out grandparents from their children's lives?

What about parents who have been abused but have been too scared to report. Domestic violence that is unreported, as hard as it is for grandparents who have been estranged. Parents have to be able to make the decisions regarding who has an input in their children's lives. Regardless if a minority exploit that power

Momof3I think we are all in agreement here that estrangement where abuse is involved does warrant being cut off. But what of the parents who haven't abused or been on drugs? Don't you feel that estrangement is a rather heavy punishment? What happened to teaching your children to communicate with the person they have an issue with? Years ago I actually taught a class where we discussed how to communicate when you are mad at someone. You use words not silence.
It's the coward that hides and runs away.

We may have taught our children everything right but I have learned from over thirty years of teaching that it doesn't matter when others have influence over our children. Or as in my case, with my son who didn't speak to me for two years.... he took full responsibility for the estrangement and said it was nothing I did. It was just him. But as a mom I spent two years of hell telling myself that I must have done something wrong or that I wasn't a good enough mom. We all make up our little stories in our head. The problem is that most of the time it is just fiction. Night all?

Smileless and Rhinestone, agree with what you say about effects of being nc. Estranged can tell our grandchildren anything, can twist an innocent comment, our cards and presents consigned to the bin. Even if gc get in touch in later life and realise we are nice people, we have lost forever that magical time of childhood, all their milestones, no one can get all those years back, we have spent with a living grief. I wish, not for the first time, I could feel anger and cut off my feelings, but I feel just a deep sadness and loss, that I try to mask, I feel increasing as if I am cut off from the lives other people live and at times have to make myself go out and about and pretend to be what I used to be. For me it started as Angela's did until it reached absolutely nc. Every effort I made to put things right, to discuss, accept responsibility for something I didn't know I had done, was rebuffed, for some reason I was out. A bit like constructive dismissal would be in the workplace, but more life changing. So anyone giving advise on this subject without having experienced it,N sorry but they haven't a clue.

Another typo got through, advice.

Celeb, hope you making good progress and coping ok.x

Rhinestone 'hit the nail on the head'

Fairydoll you sound like a very brave girl/soldier!

Smiless very good post again. As for my cards, I can't even post them, as no add. so just write them out, walk to the spare room, and 'post' in their gift sacks

Luckylegs you could have written your last post for me xx

I remember when I was walking in the park with my ND and we meet an old work college of hers, it was a dull day yet I had my sunglasses on as usual, my ND said ^ 'mum, why have you got you sun glasses on, you don't need them take them off'^ maybe a bit in front of her friend. But made me think, I do always go out with sunglasses on, even when not needed and I realise now, it's to hide my grieving eyes

Yogagirl? Glad you have ND.x

Good morning everyone, I have just been reading through some of your posts and an struck by how truly awful estrangement is, not that I didn't know anyway. My sister has mental health problems, she was attending the psychiatric hospital for two years, and had been told that she needs to remain on medication for the text of her life. About 25 years ago, she cut the whole family off for 8 years, we were not allowed any contact at all with her or her children, we received no cards or gifts, and didn't know if the ones we sent were given to the children. I know this pain, I grieved for three years, was heartbroken, and then I gradually recovered and finally accepted the situation. My mother in particular was the same, my father able to accept a bit more easily. Nobody knew what they'd done. It is like this with so many of you ladies, such a terrible situation, such heart rending grief, and with your child it is worse than your sister (which was bad enough.)
I have fears of this with my daughter, so many bad times, she has often appeared unstable, at other times perfectly rational. She appears to love us, then to dislike us. She likes her brothers, she doesn't like her brothers. Someone asked about her husband,(can't remember this thread or the other one) he's an only child, appears to dislike his own parents (with whom we enjoy a good relationship) according to he's mum he criticizes them a lot, and tells her she doesn't do enough for them (she does their ironing, some childcare, and cooks and delivers one meal a week to them.) We walk their dog (been told not to at present) childcare, DH just decorated two bedrooms for them etc.
Just a few more threads to our story, tomorrow driving 250 miles for Auntie's funeral, back Wednesday. Still sad, but not as bad. Thank you all for kind words and thoughts, and I send everyone on here warm wishes, and wish all these difficulties could be resolved for everyone.

I forgot, DDs parents in law and ourselves paid for their IVF and we've lent them money towards their house and to buy cars. We don't want the IVF money back, it was a gift of love from both sets of parents, they are paying the other back and have always been regular with the payments, including over paying on months they can afford to. We do not expect anything from them in return, but on the other thread I wrote, someone asked if we really treated our children equally. Well the answer is no we don't, we do more for her than the boys.

Sorry maddyone for your loss with your aunt and your father last year?Hope got that right at in morphine fog,

Thanks so much for support ladies lucklylegs it's very very hard to cope had lots tears and outburst.
My lovely gp bee. Wonderful and came tomvisit for long while yesterday changed my dressing photographed it first bless her to show me.

It's case being very patient butndidnt expect to feel so very ill horrendous pain I just keep crying.
My dear sons partner made me up care package huge gift bag full of so many lovley bits and bobs dry shampoo being Invaluable, only this afternoon found a pretty nail polish lifted my spirits as dh knocked my stick which fell on my foot another crying outburst.!
Had my first visitors yesterday my dear gp then ed godparents but I felt very ill last evening.
It's a. Nightmare I have been home 3 days now and it's very slow improvements

I will keep in touch best I can but after 8 years am done with thenestrangement issje to be honest yes as someone said it's sad all those lose years but it is what it is and a daughter who can be so cruel is best to walk away from anyway
regarding what I did wrong? Just me my entire personality apparently it was ok while I loved and supported her but now it's over.

Lovely to read your post,Celeb.
You've had a major operation and it's less than a week,you will regain your strength little by little.
Good you're up to receiving visitors and how thoughtful for your sons partner to give you gift bag.

???☘️ NSx