Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

Yes, you're right Yogagirl also she's probably feeling vulnerable at home without professionals around her.

I will Sparkly I know how touched she is for all the support everyone's given her. If good wishes will aid her recovery she couldn't do better could she.

What a great bunch of ladies you all are.

LuckylegsThe Congress is supposed to declare war although Truman started war with Korea in the 50's without permission. A president can attack anytime. Some people voted for Trump because they wanted something different than a politician. Well they got something different... a freaking nightmare.

Catching up...

Glad to hear Celeb is home! Hope she feels better soon!

Smileless, sorry for your and Mr. S' bad moment. Glad you're feeling better now.

Sounds as if es and edil have had a lot of drama with her parents. They may just have decided they can't deal with 2 sets of parents/pils at the same time (NOT excusing them).
Like Rhinestone and her dh, you may have been co due to other issues in their lives.

Rhinestone, ds has given you the key, 3 keys to be exact:

1. You and dh have been pushed away because ess and esdil are dealing with other issues
2. The recognized their flaws when you and dh pointed them out - either they're too embarrassed to face you now (immature) or they just can't deal with those issues on top of their other problems - idk which.
3. They're upset about whatever "expectations" you have of them. Maybe they feel they can't meet them while they're dealing with their problems.

NOT saying any of this excuses their treatment of you, but maybe it explains it? So I think you and dh can take some measure of comfort in knowing it's more about them, etc.

Also, if you do resume any kind of contact or if ds lets them know what you say (idk if he does, of course), it might be a good idea to lower or let go of any expectations. They're not ready/able to give you what you want right now. I suggest keeping it light and breezy. Just my thoughts.

Maddy, Iv been talking to you in your other thread. I hope my comment about dd wanting "to have her cake and eat it too" didn't hurt you. You were complaining about her, yourself, but if it hurt to have it put that way, I'm sorry.

But I imagine the main posts that hurt you were the ones that took her side. I think some people just tried to show you what she might be feeling. Maybe that's a good idea. I don't think they were trying to hurt you, just to help you understand dd better. Maybe they misinterpreted, of course, but I don't think they meant any harm.

You might be more comfortable in this thread though, with so many moms/gps who have big issues with their ac.

(((Hugs)))

"Today DH has said he's not doing it agai again, he's had enough. Will be change his mind? I don't know...."

Groan! Wish we could edit to add things!

Maddy, what do you say? Do YOU want to reach out to dd again? Would you even if dh chose to back away?

Smileless well if wishes were made real, we all including celeb would be in better positions.

Rhinestone lets home someone in your lovely country doesn't set off WWIII.....we might not know much about it if it's nuclear .....

,
Awful to hear on BBC that modern slavery is widespread across the UK. It puts my worries into perspective.

It's an extremely difficult situation to be if one parent wants to keep reaching out to an estranged child and the other doesn't.

Up to a year ago, we were faced with same dilemma.
Mr. S. sent our ES a couple of emails but the responses were nasty and it was that that made him decide that he too had had enough. The problem with constantly banging your head against a brick wall is that all you get for your trouble is a headache.

Thank everyone who has posted kind messages to me, I appreciate them all. starlady, I wasn't upset at all by you saying my DD may want to have her cake and eat it. You're probably right although I think I would describe it as wanting to have everything on her terms. The posts which were upsetting to me were different, one asked me if we favoured her brother because he was a boy! Since nothing could be further from the truth I was upset that anyone could even think such a thing. After our two gorgeous little boys were born along came a much wanted (and secretly hoped for) little baby girl. We were (are) parents of our generation and have given all our children the same opportunities, I know that my parents generation often didn't do that. They all were encouraged and did go to university, and we supported them through that, and we are proud of all their achievements, they all now hold professional jobs, my daughter working part time at the moment whilst the children are young. We also know we loved them, and still love all. Yes, maybe I came over as critical in that thread, but when I wrote it I was feeling upset at yet another cruel verbal attack on me and I genuinely think that my assessment of sibling rivalry/jealousy is correct. Does the jealousy go both ways, yes it does, but there is more evidence of hers. I know I'm not painting a complete picture, but I have tried to fill in a bit more on a couple of points.
For those who asked the title of my other thread, it's Sibling Jealousy, but I would like to say that in that thread, and here, I have put bare bones really, there is always such a lot more background and interwoven threads to each case.
Anyway, another thank you to you all, no one has been unkind on this thread at all, and I will fill you in more later on. I just appreciate the kindness at a difficult time. I guess that's because you've all been there and got the teeshirt.
I took some diazepam today (I had a few tablets from when I had a tooth out, I'm such a coward I asked the Dr for it) so anyway, that has calmed me down, don't worry, I've only got three tablets left, so no chance of any long lasting harm.

I might add that we lost my darling Dad last year, and only three weeks ago my beloved Auntie died. They were old and it was their time I suppose, but it doesn't stop you from missing them, knowing you'll never see them or hear their voice again. Now I have my elderly mother to take care of, but she doesn't live very near me, so it's a difficult job, but we do our best.

Trying to persuade her to come to live near us, but no success with that yet.

You've certainly had a lot to deal with maddy. I remember the thread 'Sibling Rivalry' which isn't at all uncommon but can be taken to the extreme in some cases, and I seem to remember that in your situation it was.

So sorry about the very recent loss of your Auntie and that of your father just last year.

Thanks for sharing this,Maddy.

We try not to make any judgements on here,as you say there are many threads to a story.
It's unfortunate that some people presume too much,then wonder why they upset or annoy.

Starlady you pose a bit of a conundrum follow me.
You bob about on various threads, but I know little of you.
Would appreciate a little 'pen picture ' if you wouldn't mind.
For example,are you a grandparent,do you live in the US and are you a professional therapist?
Just I like to form an idea of a person.
Many thanks.

Hope Celeb is recovering well,takes a while for the body to get over the shock.
Sure to send her my good wishes,Smileless.

By the by, this editing does work all that well as it cuts words and does it's own thing!?
So think we're all as one when we see typos ?

NSx

You see!there it goes again...
Correction 'follow' should read for me.
'does ' should read DOES NOT!?

Maddy, Sibling jealousy must be difficult, I hope it calms.

Bugsy I am not estranged although sometimes fear it with my DIL! Reading your last post, I do wonder why you regularly tell posters on this thread about your perceptions of their behaviours, viewpoints etc! I am unclear why you bother? Posters regularly say that they have no idea why they have been cut off. Who can say whether they are being entirely honest with themselves and even if they are not, it doesn't diminish the awful pain and hurt they must feel at such a situation! Even if they know that they caused it somehow and now can't get back what they lost, the pain and regret will be terrible. You feel that posters on this thread will not accept anyone who does not agree with them ...well, they have a commonality of experience that may well make them less open to hearing from those that don't but so what! Each person in this CO position seeks answers, support from others in the same position because of the ongoing pain; they don't seek being told endlessly that their behaviours are disliked by non CO (I'm assuming that you are non CO) people! The thread may seem smug, shortsighted, ignorant, self delusional or anything else to you and others, but so what! They are still CO, still supporting each other, still trying to make sense, still maybe kidding themselves in some cases (but maybe not) ...so why not leave them to do and say what they see fit to help each other and let them draw what they need from that? I come on this thread occasionally because of my fears mentioned at the beginning of this post, because I sympathise with the pain (even if sometimes I wonder about the cause) and because I sometimes feel I cam offer something helpful! I truly am unsure why you come on this thread...although maybe it is because you feel that someone needs to "tell them" about their perceived "self delusion" or whatever! Why bother?

Madgran, one comment stands out for me in your above post, "even if they know they caused it somehow", this is what I mull over, if I had done things differently would she have been different, did I spoil her, know I used to fit in with what she wanted to keep the peace. I don't recognise the person she became. That's the trouble you can't go back and try again because you can just be yourself as you always were. I know my dad, who doted on her, said she would leave me behind, so he could see it. I wouldn't! It's this coming to terms with the unchangeable that takes time. So thanks Madgran, for getting me to face that aspect full on.

Typos, re reading everything twice now, I have made some real bloomers, things popping up the opposite of what I typed.

Thank you for your post Madgran good one xx

I wish I did know what I did to get co, I often say this to my ND, that if I could say; "If only, I hadn't done that!" but there really isn't anything, other than loving my D&GC, so incurring his & his mother's jealousy!

However on looking back one tries to find something and I think my organising & paying for their wedding may have got up his nose. He wanted a registry office wedding and then onto his local for a pint & pie " and I'll not be buying anyone else's, they can buy their own" his words. That's why I said "Ok then I will pay" I obviously ok'd it with them both, took my D to the venue, which took days of phoning round to find as the wedding day was set to be in 8 weeks time! The church was his families church, really lovely. I also involved his parents on everything, but looking back I think I shouldn't have, but I couldn't see my youngest D having a paupous wedding! Also my D&GD hadn't long moved out of my house, so I suppose I still felt very responsible for her, if she had been gone years, then I would never have stepped in.
My ND & I now think he wanted such a quicky wedding, as he was actually going to get rid of her and needed the legal documentation to keep his son, 9mnths after the wedding he did just that, where this co all began!

I pop in now and again too. You were very nice to me when I fretted about my son and new DIL so I feel I can keep in touch, Just to say we can all look back at our lives and think 'I should have done that" or 'I shouldn't have done that' but honestly nobody on this thread did anything more than perhaps be a bit irritating at times, like we all are! If that was reason enough we would all be CO.
Son and wife due back from honeymoon this weekend.
Have a lovely day everyone

Hello - posted a good while ago about my estranged daughter - quick update. She's now 31, been estranged for years (her decision,due to the divorce of her father and I, in that time she's married and had 2 children ) I've never had any contact (again her decision ) I've basically always sent cards,letters etc but never received anything back. She's moved a few times and in the past have given cards to my other grown child to pass over. Last time of moving I knew the address as it was in same area as a friend of mine , so could post direct. She is now moving again, do I return to involving my other child as a go between or come to the sad conclusion that I'm never going to get anywhere in resolving this and just stop. Thank you if you reply.

Maddy,you can't be 'all things to all men',you will be worn ragged.Maybe it's this your husband sees.
If there's sibling jealousy that's their problem.
You are still in grief and have an elderly mum.
Little time for yourself.

Try and stand back,take stock.

Discuss with your daughter if possible and husband certainly what you feel in a calm way..it's difficult when emotions run high.
Don't think about jealousy or other traits.
Talk about how much you can offer e.g. So many hours babysitting,how much time spent with mum and above all quality time for you and your husband..before having your family you had a relationship with him.
Chiefly, find a quiet place and just sit and breathe.

When things feel overwhelming I go into the garden and look at the complexity of a single flower.

Madgran, an interesting post.Think Bugsy has problems of some kind.
Can't say I feel smug as that would mean I take pride in this dreadful situation.

Also now know why we have been cut out.

I am very grateful for this thread when it was started 5 years ago.As I felt very alone and in a very dark place.
If anyone would have told me the situation would have deteriorated to this and remain the same 5 years on don't know what would have happened.My family were very concerned about my health.
As a stone is thrown in the water so the ripples move outward and I can see the broader picture.
I don't have to come on here, but am grateful for Gransnet and this thread in particular.

Yoga, don't beat yourself up,no one could have done more..that's our problem I'm afraid.
Our situation is similar but at different ends of the social spectrum.
Friends and family are as one in thinking it's as if our daughter has been abducted into a sect.
As long as she's well and happy there's little we can do other than keep the door ajar.

Nice to hear from you Elgantine and Lucky..anyone else reading too.
NSx

Angela welcome back. Can your other AC try to set up a meeting between you and your estD, with her there and try to sort out. After such a long time your estD should move on from your divorce from her dad and bring you back into her and your GC lives, how lovely that would be. If not, then the cards Good luck

Eglantine hope all goes well for you and d.i.l on their return from honeymoon xx

Northernsoul

Maddy Just read your thread on sibling jealousy xx

Luckylegs

Now out into the with my little dog and hoping my D&GD too

Take care all xx

StarladyThank you for your support. You hit it in the nail. But what's interesting is that what the estranged children see as an expectation I see as a given. Why wouldn't parents have an expectation of seeing their children? Or expecting their children to call when they have had an operation? It's the little things that I was brought up to do that they see as a burden I guess. But if they aren't getting along we sure aren't going to be a priority. But why hold back is seeing your children?