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I despair!

(141 Posts)
Madmeg Mon 12-Jun-17 21:16:32

I've been married for almost 45 years. It's not been a brilliant marriage, but we've loved and raised two children, done well in our careers, enjoyed reasonably good health and are not strapped for cash.

Apologies for the long rant.

We took early retirement about 7 years ago and spent the first 4 years bringing our shabby house up to date (mostly done by ourselves). We never really discussed what we wanted to do in retirement but I know he always wanted to improve his photography skills, see a bit of the world and have a model railway (he has most of the kit in boxes). None of it has happened, and he doesn't show any interest in making it, or anything else, happen.

He sleeps 10 hours plus a night, so it's late morning before he gets up, so too late to go anywhere interesting. He thinks that driving 10 miles is a long journey, so being in a rural area means even the next town is too far for him.

He has no plans for the rest of his/our life. It is down to me to organise holidays and he tags along. It is down to me to arrange to visit our girls and grandchildren, and he doesn't seem particularly interested in doing anything with them (they are aged 5 and 3) - he sits in a chair and watches them play. He would happily stay at home every day and potter.

His conversation is non-existent. Today I tried to discuss the success or otherwise of comprehensive schools and he seems to have forgotten what they were, calling them Secondary Moderns, and telling me that our daughters went to grammar schools (they didn't). And this is a man who spent years of his life involved in politics, both local and national, and whose career was in Higher Education. The conversation ended with me in tears cos his arguments were factually wrong and he couldn't see that they were. He told me I was being bossy.

The girls have noticed all this too, and basically have stopped including him in conversations involving anything that requires advice or an opinion - they just ask me, and welcome my input. The most they get from him is "I don't know" or worse, incorrect advice, or even worse a badly-told joke instead that they have heard tens of times before.

Before we took early retirement 7 years ago he talked of developing his photography skills, travelling Europe in our caravan, setting up a model railway (he has all the kit in boxes in the loft). But he's made no effort to pursue any of these. I found him a photography class but after a few sessions he declared it wasn't useful to him. I have drawn up plans to convert our garage for a fabulous model railway but he has barely looked at them saying he is "not sure about it". As for travelling Europe, he now thinks a ten-mile journey is long-distance and suddenly has declared that he has always hated driving - this man had a Triumph Spitfire when I met him!

He is slow and plodding at everything now (he never was fast, but it all seems worse), declaring that "it is bad for you to rush about" and "I like taking my time". Meanwhile I am boiling with rage inside. Even his speech is now laboriously slow, and I've noticed friends losing concentration and wandering off before he has finished his point - which is usually not even interesting.

Everyone thinks he is a "nice man", and he is. He wouldn't ever insult anyone or hurt any living thing. But two friends recently told me "He's a lovely man, but heck, he's hard work isn't he?".

He's nearly 71 (I'm 65). Is this what 71-year-olds are supposed to be like and am I being unrealistic expecting him to have enthusiasm for things? I certainly still have plans and enthusiasm, and could cheerfully take myself off alone to do them, but I'd much rather we did it as a couple, or at least know that if I were off doing something, he would be doing his own thing too.

How do I spend the rest of my life with this bore? Can I chivvy him up in some way to be more lively and positive? When people ask how he is, his standard reply is "Oh, not too bad considering". Considering what? He is fit as a flea.

I say he is as fit as a flea. This is another bugbear (and I apologise again for the length of my post). As I said earlier, his hobby involves politics, so you can imagine that with County Council elections in May and the General Election in June, we have been out delivering leaflets every day. Except I have delivered 80% of them myself, either because he was too tired to come with me, or because he was so slow. I must add that I am not fit. I am more than a little in the obese range on the charts, and he is at the bottom end of "overweight". One particular day we were delivering on a modern estate of semis and I devised a route for each of us that would end up back at the car. If either of us got to the car first, we would carry on and meet the other later down the road. So I did my half, and back to the car. I carried on. And on. And on. By now I was worrying that I was sticking a leaflet through a door he had already done. So I phoned him. Yes, he was fine, he was just round the corner. I had delivered 175 leaflets to his 35. When I queried it with him I was told that his arthritis was playing up. What arthritis? Never been mentioned before. But okay, his knee was hurting. A few days later we were doing another round with the same plan but I made sure that his houses had no steps or steep drives. I did 160 with steps and slopes to his 20 on the flat. His response was "Just because you can go like fury doesn't mean I have to do the same". But surely that isn't normal to have done so little? Is it another example of him having no enthusiasm?

Sorry for the long post, I didn't know what to leave out to give you a proper picture.

suzied Thu 15-Jun-17 07:28:02

I think you should stop thinking about duty. Otherwise you will just seem a bit of a martyr. You could discuss splitting up again. Tell them you can't stand his behaviour and his refusal to do anything about it - that might spur him into agreeing to seek help, if not you could separate downsize and forge your own life.

Luckygirl Thu 15-Jun-17 07:44:17

I am married to a man with PD. A lot of what you are describing fits the diagnosis. He is a retired doctor so there was no need to see the doc - he knew what he had.

I think that all you can do is develop your own life enjoyments and leave him to his own devices; not in a cruel way, but just so he can live as he wants to. It is clear that your desire for activity is way out of synch with his and, at this stage, there is no reason why you should not just get on with your life.

When/if he shows clear unignorable symptoms of illness then it will be time to think again - in the meantime just get on and enjoy yourself and stop trying to get him to behave as you would like him to - it is a lost cause - I am sure he thinks you should slow down a bit and stop wanting to be out and about and doing! I do so recognise this situation!

I am sure it must feel deeply exasperating to you that you have stuck with a marriage that has been lacking any spark; and now he is getting more reclusive and you are becoming more aware that the clock is ticking. Just get out and enjoy yourself - you cannot change him; whether the cause of his behaviour is medical or not. Time enough for being a carer when he is truly unwell rather than just no kind of true partner.

acanthus Thu 15-Jun-17 08:56:22

It definitely sounds like depression or a neurological cause as his behaviour seems such a reversal of his former personality/lifestyle. My DH at nearly 75 is still active, albeit a bit slower, goes to the gym regularly and has many projects on the go, despite having a few health issues; he still does work in the house and garden even if he doesn't particularly enjoy it, which makes me think that there must be a physical/mental cause for your husband's lack of energy or interest. Perhaps you could get the GP to do a few blood tests when he next goes for his 'flu jab or other health check?

If there really is nothing wrong, then I agree with others - try to get out and about yourself and develop a life outside the home. If he is that diffident then it shouldn't cause too many problems.

willa45 Thu 15-Jun-17 16:25:27

Madmeg...it's me again. Your husband probably won't agree but I would strongly recommend you see a counselor or therapist on your own so you can learn how to cope and possibly get him the help he needs! Truth is it's your husband who can benefit the most from some sound professional help. His lack of initiative and motivation sound like chronic depression to me and that's not something that goes away on it's own! After forty five years, you both deserve to be happy!

devongirl Thu 15-Jun-17 17:02:56

Sorry madmeg, haven't had time to read all the thread and this may have been brought up before, but is there any intimacy between you now, emotional if not physical?

jimmyRFU Thu 15-Jun-17 17:11:57

I know how you feel. Don't post much here but can sympathise so much with you.

Though hubby is fit considering he had bowel cancer in 2008 and at 67 is evening cleaning he seems to waste his life.

I've just received my passport - the first since 1998. He applied for his. It arrived today and he signed it in the wrong place. Never read the instructions on where to sign it. Rang Passport Office and they said its valid but Border Control might refuse it so its got to be the process all over again. We might not even go anywhere because he won't fly and isn't interested in coach trips. I may end up going with a cousin who has invited me with their family.

It might inspire him to get his finger out if we get on with things leaving them behind. They may not be inspired but we can at least say we tried and we can get on with our lives.

M0nica Thu 15-Jun-17 19:58:39

jimmy, might he be interested in train holidays (to Europe)?

Madmeg Thu 15-Jun-17 23:27:06

Thanks everyone. No, devongirl, there is no intimacy of any kind and hasn't been for 30 years. We went to Relate at that time but he walked out on the third session because he said the counsellor was insinuating that there was "something wrong with him". She wasn't, she was suggesting changes that he might like to make. A couple of years after that he moved into the spare room cos he said I snored (I do, but so does he, and lots of couples snore happily together), and now has his own room, kitted out as he wanted it, like a teenager's room. A widowed female friend recently said to me, after she had had a hug from another female friend that I wouldn't need hugs from other people cos my husband would give me one if I needed it. That would never happen, and never really did. Physical contact seemed to only interest him if sex was the likely outcome.

But this is a different issue. I have long since resigned myself to a loveless relationship and we have discussed in the past what this means for us, which is that we still share most of our lives together and just get on with it. He says he still loves me, but there has not been any evidence of that in 30+ years. It might not be ideal, but the one extra-marital relationship I had 15 years ago terminated when the man died of bowel cancer. I've done a lot of things out of duty, including baking a cake for that man's marriage, in hospital, to his then partner (whom he married "out of duty", and putting a smile on my face. I've no intention of going through that again!

There ARE things we both like to do but it is always me who initiates them, and I even initiate things for him, and try to be enthusiastic about them. Most times I am more enthusiastic than he is.

Coincidentally, his repeat prescription arrived today with a message "Make an appointment for a blood test". I have no idea what blood test that might be. In answer to a few people, we both have regular checkups as a result of previous medical episodes, so the idea of suggesting another check up isn't on.

I think I just have to see what develops in the future, and take it from there.

Meg

BlueBelle Fri 16-Jun-17 05:59:27

But you now have the ideal situation he needs an appointment for a blood test so speak to the doctor BEFORE you make the appointment you can ask for a phone consultation at most surgeries now or make yourself a doctors appointment and go through it with him/her and they will then be aware to do more than the blood test needed. All doctors seem to regularly do a simple dementia test nowadays without there being any need My friend went recently for an osteoporosis check up and at 81 she has a mind and wit equal to a young person but the doctor at the end of the consultation did an automatic memory test just as part of the check up ( she passed with flying colours)
You don't need to make 'another check up appointment' you just need to speak to the doctor BEFORE the check ups. Ask yourself why you are so reluctant to think it could be medical ? Because you really don't want it to be a health problem do you? could that be because facing up to years of care for someone you don't love is huge or do you want it to be 'his fault' or maybe a combination of both
A marriage without love is never going to work and it sounds as if 30 years of total resentment has built up to a crescendo I can only add to what others have said if AFTER the medical side has been explored and if he is shown to have no mental health problems use your retirement to get out and about and do all the things you want to do with friends or groups

If you just 'wait and see' after all the advice you have been given then there was no real point in your original post apart from getting it off your chest which will help temporarily but not be the answer

Madmeg Sat 17-Jun-17 01:46:43

BlueBelle,we don't make appointments for each other. Whilst I was in the garden this morning he made the appointment, which is with the nurse, not the doctor. If the blood test is normal there will be no appointment with the doctor. It is only a cholesterol test.

I don't know what evidence you have for saying that you can ask for a phone consultation at "most surgeries now" - we used to be able to but due to cut-backs they are no longer available. You can ask the doctor on triage duty for one hour a day to ring you regarding an urgent matter, but that is all. I also don't know how you can say "all doctors seem to regularly do a simple dementia test" - I assume you mean a MMSE test - nowadays. Both of us have seen our GPs several times a year in the past 3 years and neither of us has ever been given such a test.

Yes, I could make an appointment for myself and tell the GP about my worries, but that still doesn't get my husband to see the GP. I have, in the past, written to my husband's GP regarding my concerns about his mobility, knowing that he had made an appointment regarding that, but the GP appeared not to have read it. In any case, there are now so many locum and part-time doctors at our surgery that we rarely see the same one twice. Yes, my letter would be in his records, but doctors don't read them before a consultation unless the patient points it out - and my husband wouldn't be aware that I had written, would he?

Of course I don't want it to be a health problem. Why would I? I am not so stupid that I would ignore the matter if I really thought it was a health problem that could be treated, but at the moment I am not at all sure, hence my thought to wait and see if further symptoms develop.

Furthermore, this marriage without love has "worked" for 30 years with more success that many others. We aren't all lucky enough to be in love or to be loved for life, especially now that we are all living longer, but that doesn't mean we abandon a long relationship when it seems that our other half might be ill, or even, as I believe in my case, simply disinterested in anything - though there are probably more grounds for abandoning in that case. We went off on my pre-arranged trip on the train/tram/steamtrain with visit to the Transport Museum today and we both enjoyed it, and the company of others on the same trip. There are moments of pleasure even in a loveless marriage.

If I were to show him the conversations I have had on here he would blow a fuse and call everyone scaremongers and worse, and accuse me of engineering support for my supposition that he is ill. In fact, in my original post, I never mentioned the possibility of illness of any kind. I simply wanted to know how to chivvy up my husband into being more pro-active or at least making the effort to show some enthusiasm for life. It was everyone else who suggested a medical cause, and as I said, I am bearing all those suggestions in mind, and thanked people for them.

So again, I don't know why you are telling me that there was "no real point" in my original post. I have heard a lot of views and found many of them potentially relevant. So if there was no point in that, then what is Gransnet for? Is it a forum for other people to foist their views on someone in difficulty and asking for help? I think not, and most people posting here have been constructive in their advice.

Saggi Fri 28-Jul-17 07:21:48

Just picked up of your 'rant' Madmeg! Get it off your chest girl. You and me could be married to twin brothers!! And you and me could BE twins . I'm 65 my husband is 71. He had a very very slight stroke when he was 50. HE decided he wasn't going to 'move' or 'work' ever again.He is totally petrified of any illness. He has sat in an armchair for 21 years watching t.v while I double my hours at work to make sure we kept a roof over our heads.I finially stopped work at 64, I was in a heavy job and my 'real' arthritis couldn't take the strain. I have it in my hands my hip and my back has three prolapsed discs. I now have a prolapse uterus/bladder and am waiting for repair job on it. When I told him he covered his ears until I stopped talking. He wouldn't read the paperwork the doc had given me on 'do's and donts)' as in no bending no lifting nor digging the garden....!!! joke!! In my house if I don't do it it don't get done. He turns on the tele at 7.30 (very loud) he says he's deaf but can hear a pound coin drop three miles away! It's so he can't hear my comments on him ever getting a life!! I Spring ...yes Spring outa bed every morning at 5.30 as this was my usual getting up for work time...and cycle to pool for my 50 lengths.Come home to housework ( no more than 1 hour a day. It's not worth it ladies)! Then I'm expected to watch TVs all day. I don't! I dcorate ..garden...pick grandkids up from school three times week , cook for them do a little housework for my DD/SIL and try to enjoy my time without him. He won't even walk up the street with me.We haven't had coffee/ lunch out in twenty years!! Im not REALLY married in any sense, just his housekeeper...unpaid at that. I can't afford to leave this awful life as I only have a state pension. I have a good friend who I can rant to but I don't abuse her good nature by doing it too often. So sorry Gransnet you gotta listen. But Madmeg if you are better positioned financially than me ....Run, run, run. Doesn't matter what people say about you doing it , just GO...before like me you get 'locked-in" to your own awful nightmare! GO NOW !!

theretheredear Fri 28-Jul-17 09:49:55

sad

MesMopTop Sat 16-Sep-17 00:46:03

I think that a visit to the GP might be helpful. There appears to be a marked change in your husband. Depression or dementia can be an issue at this age and stage but only his GP can say if there is a problem or not. I do not wish to alarm you, there could be many underlying issues for this change, or there may be absolutely nothing wrong. Won't do any harm to get a hood chevk up either way.

seasider Sat 16-Sep-17 07:21:58

Oh Madmeg and Saggi I empathise. My DP is much younger and suffering from depression and is already an old man. I have an active social life and can probably afford to leave but can't as doctor says he is supposed high risk of suicide. He has never displayed suicidal tendencies but I think is in a high risk age group.

loopyloo Sat 16-Sep-17 07:59:27

Definitely a trip to the doctors perhaps under the ruse of an "annual check up". Is he a bit overweight? This might be type 2 diabetes.
Depression on leaving work also a possibility, am glad my husband is still working at 74 as I know he would find it difficult at home.
You sound very caring to me. Perhaps cut back his carbs a bit and take him for 30 mins walk each day. Say you need his company.
All best wishes. It is not easy.