Our grown up children have minds of their own.

Lovely & interesting post Lilyflower and lovely name too Well done you on your control. I feel good having a clean & tidy home too, apart from when I have my darling little granddaughter to visit, then I turn a blind eye & enjoy the fun & love

MissAdventure

Because of a controlling Mum and a controlling ex husband, my 3 kids all saw the ramifications. We always discussed the issues openly, how to avoid it and how to deal with it by assertiveness. I always befriended all their partners they had, but I would not tread on eggshells with anyone, as this had just enabled bad situations with Mum and my ex to continue. I calmly address anything that comes in my path now that makes me feel uncomfortable, I ask questions and empathise to smooth relationships. I know that it’s 10 times harder to deal with stuff years down the line when bad habits/patterns are firmly established .... I learned the hard way with trying to keep others happy to the detriment of my own feelings. I am lucky, it’s worked out for me and I adore all my 3’s partners.

How cruel these mil dil and sil can be.I often see threads for other gps on here makes me so angry.
My son was in a violent relationship and it cost him his life
No matter what you do as bad as it is they have to make the choices I tried everything I could and will feel guilty for the rest of my life. My one consolation is I have his d our gd thank god.

Gabrielle
What I don't understand is why your son would stay with a woman like that.

DD1 was with a very violent and controlling man. He was on drugs and very fond of alcohol. He was constantly sending her to get money from me or our family members particularly the older ones. Many times I tried to get her to leave him. One day I displeased him and he hit me. Without thinking I hit back and was told by DD not to hit him. As awful as it sounds I wish I had done more that day. He nearly killed my DD and DGC with his violence. The Police and SS could not see him for what he was despite all my pleas for help from them both. So this went on for 4 years. He was controlling DD and trying to control the rest of us. Eventually she did see through him but it took some very serious stuff to give her the clarity to see through him.
It is so easy to talk from the outside. I can only imagine the pressure she was under out of our sight. It was a horrible time and not something I ever want to live through again.

Luckylegs 9 A controlling person is usually one, who themselves have experienced what it is like to be under some ones control and usually stems from their own parent/parents
It is easy to say how can our sons /daughters allow themselves to be controlled in that way.
Fear is frequently the reason.
It takes very little to control someone who is of a placid nature. Fear of what might happen.?
Using children whereby the dominating half of the relationship uses the children as their weapon?
'But they have a mind of their own' Easy to say when you are not the victim.
Unfortunately for many this mind of their own as been taken away.

I grew up with a controlling mum.... I married a controlling husband. But strangely after an endless 25 years....when he was slagging me off,..blaming me for another of his disasters... I punched his lights out!!! One blow that’s all it took ...I saw red ( I ACTUALLY) saw red ...and he cowered from that day to this.He now speaks to me respectfully ...he doesn’t blame me for his life anymore. You see what I’ve found out is controllers are cowards ... both mentally and physically. The punch was never mentioned . I took back control and whatever people on thread think it WAS the right thing to do.

I've heard similar before, Saggi.

I do not agree with violence ..... however, having been in your situation, when all else has failed, I can so see how this can happen. As you say, controllers are cowards, pure and simple, it’s mental cruelty that they subject others too, just no one can see the bruises. Saggi I salute you and you so made me laugh !!

There are lots of different ways to take back control saggi, that was one. Good for you.

Leaving was DD's way of taking back control. Lots of people never find the strength to take back control and suffer for the rest of their lives. DD's ex MiL is one such but I know of lots of others. Some people die as a result of being in that sort of relationship.

Oh Saggi I wish I had a 'high five' icon I could post. The punch clearly worked for you and I'm so pleased that it did.

I agree totally Coconut, remember when we were children we were told that 'sticks and stones may break our bones but words can never hurt us', I used to say that to our boys but of course it isn't true is it.

Saggi, I also don't agree with Violence but, bloody well done!

There's are lots of reasons why families fall out. To single out 1 particular reason is really niave.

I agree with everything that has been said. I'm in a situation, but I'm on the outside looking in, they have tried to drag me into it a few times but managed to keep myself out of it, yet still been blamed for the reason the relationship has broke down.

So I do understand what Luckylegs is saying. However, this is such a long and in depth problem that has always been there due to the persons behaviour.

This isn't your everyday, run of the mill, normal person. I understand completely that they manifest as a friend or a boyfriend, family member, an in law or whatever and if you are unlucky enough to encounter one of these people, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying, about how difficult it is for it to be a normal and healthy relationship.

Controlling people think about them, their point of view, their inability to think about anyone else's feelings, they like to play the victim in situations they create, nothing you do is good enough, it is always you and never them. No amount of talking or explaining will change anything so people step back, leave the relationship, divorce and because you do that, you're the bad one for not putting up with their behaviour and leaving the relationship, sometimes it takes years and years to leave.

An abusive and controlling relationship come in all shapes and sizes.

I agree with everything Coconut has said.

There are quite a few books on coercive control and how to deal with it.

Invisible Chains: Overcoming Coercive Control in Your Intimate Relationship Paperback – 28 Apr 2015
by Lisa Aronson Fontes (Author)

I am witnessing this first hand. My DD and Sil have been together for 12 years, since their mid to late teens. He was terribly angry and unhappy young man when they met. They are a very contented couple withtheir third child on the way. Sil is part of our family, another son to me. He is an only child from a disfuntional family. His mother chose to move away when her marriage broke up (not his father). She visits them once a month and stays in their house. She is always very helpful, does housework and shops for them. My DD isn't much into housework! Her Mil is extremely houseproud and her home has no personal touches at all. My DD has started to find her presence 'interfereing' . She ignores pleas from my DD not to move things, or rearrange anything. My DD does not like chemical cleaners, her Mil bleaches everything - I mean everything. Now she has taken to criticizing her parenting, telling her that her youngest (3) is spoilt and backward (he is actually more forward and less tamtrummy then her adored eldest grandson) and the other day went directly against my DD instructions to her son, and went off in a strop when DD stood her ground. Then she told my Sil that my DD is undermining her! I have always tried to support their realtionship, and she is always invited to Christmas and famiy events, as I know she is on her own, and it is important for my grandchildren to have a good relationship with both sides of the family, but it has to be said, she is the most narcissitic person I have ever met! Keeping out of it - but have to provide tea and sympathy and the offer of bail money when it gets too difficult for my DD!

Knickas you sound like a lovely mum/grandma. Keep rolling out that love/support I'm sure you DD appreciates it after putting up with her mil.

"On other threads relating to breakdowns in families, I see a reoccurring scenario of adult children breaking contact because of what parents see as them having controlling partners. I don't see how a loving son or daughter would allow themselves to be told what they can or can't do."

I agree. I don't know any person who stays with a partner who wants to control.

But Norah, there are women who have stayed with physically or emotionally abusive husbands for years before having the courage and the means to get away. The same, I imagine, is true for some men. No one likes to be controlled, but not everybody has the inner strength to leave just like that.

I'm sure there are some who have less extreme spouses who are controlling in a milder way. Maybe they won't hit, etc., but they'll argue, give the cold shoulder, etc. till they get their way. Not everyone can stand up to that. Some, I;m sure, find it easier to "go along to get along."

That being said, I think it's different than when a gp walks on eggshells. Gps do that because they really have no say in their ac and cil's household or over their gc. And because they don't want to lose access to their gc.

Spouses have equal say in the marriage and parenting. Or at least, they have a right to it even if that's not how it pans out. If they're walking on eggshells, it's because of an extremely touchy or controlling spouse - not just someone who's asserting their rights over their kids, etc. It's a very different situation, imo, I know both can be upsetting though.

I think it's heartbreaking what some of you have been through here, particularly you, Sheila, having lost your ds. My heart goes out to you.

But yes, our ac do "have minds of their own." Imo, that means that in SOME cases - NOT saying any here - they agree with their partners. Or they've worked out a compromise with their partner that their parents don't know about. For example, maybe a dil doesn't want to bother with her pils, but her dh does because, whatever their flaws, they're his parents and he loves them. So maybe they decide he can still see them if he wants, but she won't. And maybe they decide, also, even after much arguing, that the gc won't see them either. The parents/pils may see it as, "Dil is keeping the gc away from me, even though ds comes here." And maybe she is. But also, it's a compromise on dil's part because if it were up to her, he wouldn't bother with his parents anymore either. Make sense?

I think it is sometimes worth looking back to when we were the younger generation and our relationship with our parents then. Didn't most of us 'have our own minds', make some decisions that our parents didn't like and approve of, have to deal with difficult parents.

I can think of friends who dealt with loving, but smothering parents, parents who pontificated and knew all the answers - except that they never understood the problems.

Of course our children have minds of their own. If they didn't we would have failed as parents.

Sheilasue so very sorry for the loss of your dear Son God Bless

Sorry about your hard times too Sugarpuff at least your D is out & safe now. I fear for my estD & GD too.

Absolutely Sarahelen and well done Saggi I think you did the right thing too, even though I don't condone violence, but it certainly woke him up didn't it!

Your first post is excellent Starlady and spot on in my estD's situation. My estD should have done that which you've said in your second post, which is see her birth family with the C & he could stay clear if that was he's wish.

Yes Smileless you're right about that saying, as we all know, words can certainly break your heart!