How long can this go on

I think you are a relatively new comer either to GN or at least to any thread that deals with estrangement luzdoh.

The "there may be faults on both sides" attitude to those of us living with this nightmare is all too familiar I'm afraid. I used to wonder why there had to be faults on both sides. Of course sometimes there are but other times this isn't the case and then it dawned on me.

If an AC can turns their back on their own parents and in many instances their entire family, and their parents and family are not at fault, if it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone, it could happen to other GN's so there has to be faults on both sides, so if some GN's know (as we do) that they've done nothing to deserve being cut out, it will never happen to them.

polyester57 I think you might be missing the point when you say you are fed up with people moaning about their adult children. It says more about you than about them actually. This is a discussion about a very difficult situation brought about by an adult child. Consequently it will not be surprising that people give their similar experiences on the subject and will walkabout difficulties encountered with Adult Children. It is, in fact a large problem among Grandparents and you are lucky that you have happy experiences in that area. If this subject makes you fed-up then just read a different one.
It doesn't really help the Original Poster to be given a description of a perfect family at this time. She told us, she used to have a very happy family. In fact I have a similar relationship with 2 of my children, as you describe. We do not communicate often but know we are there. When we meet it is often so similar to how you describe meeting your daughter. Looking back, at those times I had no clue as to what might happen in the future, how another daughter would make such a change in the dynamics. I think the shock of losing a happy family where they used to gather together is what has hit NamsNanny.

I don't think it helps to say we are "fed-up" with the subject raised by the Original Poster! It's like telling them to stop moaning. No one will post anything at that rate!

walkabout? = talk about!

i dont think polyester was describing a perfect family. She explained how she doesnt see a lot of her adult children or grandchildren but when they do get together they have an o time. Possibly she would like things to be different? We dont know.
I get the impression she gets on with her life and makes the best of it.

Smileless2012 Crumbs! That's awful! Some people can't face the truth. When I was a student (the first time round!) I fell in love with TS Eliot, but haven't read him lately however the line
"Human-kind cannot bear very much reality"
immediately came to mind.
(Four Quartets, Burnt Norton)
I can remember as a child thinking how very wrong it was when people liked to say "There are faults on both sides".
It's the most stupid remark, so pompous and judgemental. I suppose every child that has been abused had faults? Or every girl who was raped? I could just go on and on. I know it's silly of me, but I just finished a bit of work on some psych research- not much - and it reminded me about how wicked some people are, how many people are bullied and have their lives ruined by people who behave as if they are perfect when in public. There are many perfectly innocent victims. So please everyone, stop saying 'There must be faults on both sides!"
Thanks Smiles!

oldbatty Thanks, I didn't dare turn the page back to refresh my memory! I hope I haven't hurt her, I fear I have. I mainly wanted to say that the subject is about very difficult Adult Children, so it would be surprising if people didn't talk about it! Thanks for putting me straight.

NotSpaghetti.......There is something in what you suggest I think.

Although I would say that Nearly is determinedly stubborn, as in the type to cut their nose off to spite their face!! So not meek and mild.

But, you have made me think back, and Nearly does nothing, nothing at all without running it past the partner first.

They are far more enmeshed than most couples.

I get the feeling Nearly has the need to protect their relationship (from me?) for some reason.

Thanks for that, I need to stop crying and do more constructive thinking

Smileless2012 (Must go to bed soon!) - you are right, from the deep recesses of my mind I remember some depressing Psychology research which came up with the great news that when bad things happen to innocent people the victims tend to get shunned, albeit in a kind of subtle way. It seems that people are a bit scared of people who carry an aura of bad luck/illness/death. Also that's why they blame the victim. If the victim has some sort of responsibility in their illness/accident/being attacked or whatever it was, then the other people can think "Good, I won't let that happen to me!" Especially if they have a tangible way of "blaming" them such as their bad diet or walking home on a dark street (or being a bad parent!). There's tons of research. Even some research showed that Medics blamed the patients who did not recover, in some subtle way blaming them. Distancing the patients from themselves... I was widowed by suicide at 41, I know what "subtle shunning" is!

Namsnanny just briefly: Re your reply to NotSpaghetti about influence of the difficult daughter's husband/partner, if it looks like a controlling relationship, I wrote a reply to DotMH1901 about that which might/might not be relevant.

My difficult Adult Child also would cut off her nose to spite her face by the way.
Got to go to bed, night night. I do hope you get a good night's rest knowing you have lots of support and understanding here.

luzdoh......Thanks so much for everything you have said, it has been helpful, reassuring, and knowledgeable.

Living through your husbands suicide must have been traumatic for you. I wish I could say something useful. X

you too luzdoh X

I'm new to this site and am finding the abbreviations very frustrating. I found this post hard to understand.

You are not alone Kitty74.
I feel so sorry for Namsnanny I hope she can find a way through all the problems and have some peace of mind.

'Nearly' here is the name of adult female child. NCAC = no contact adult child. therefore 'nearly NCAC' = an adult daughter who has nearly gone 'no contact'. 'No contact' is a phenomenon where a decision is made to deny contact between grandparent/s and granchildren. (GC) often by daughter in law (DIL) but in this case by daughter (DD) rarely by son (DS) but they often collude with (NC DIL)wife. It is very hurtful and baffling and seems to have been started on mumsnet in defence of 'interfering' mother in law (MIL) or because they are attention-seeking narcissists who enjoy wielding the power they have. Nothing seems able to be done once this course of action is entered on. I hope I've got that right. Maybe others could do better. I hope it helps. There has been a lot of discussion in the posts above about the use of the acronyms. So probably reading those will help.

luzdoh

No, can't top that explanation Rocknroll; great post.

Rocknroll5me Brilliant! Your post is great! Thanks!
And many thanks NamsNanny and Smileless.

To any new arrivals here, this post has a bit more Acronym use than usual, reflecting the difficulty of the situation I think.

Rocknnroll5me really is perspicacious, hit the nail bang on the head when describing the DIL or DD or whoever instigates the no-contact. She said;
they are attention-seeking narcissists who enjoy wielding the power they have.

Feel so sad for you Namsnanny: had a similar situation then I found out it was the girlfriend deleting messages from me, and stopping visits, I had almost thought he didn't want me in his life. Then the truth emerged when he called to ask if he could come and stay (afraid to return for his own safety - she was alcoholic)... all ok now with a fab lady with GC and very much in my life.
Hope you can get through this and it all gets sorted: sometimes I think AC don't think they need us, always left mine to come around in their own time, spent a while in the non-contact world with all my kids - now all is good!

luzdoh I agree. It's like 'it takes 2 to make an argument'. Maybe technically, but when it is thrown at you when you have finally got up the courage to stand up to a bully it is just cruel. Tell a battered wife that there are 2 sides. It is ridiculous.

"Fault on both sides" was often said to victims of domestic abuse. It is very wrong, it allows bad things to continue if the focus is put on the behaviour of the innocent.

Another one "it takes two to tango" to victims of financial abuse. Again giving some rights to the abuser.

In the OP case the sort of behaviour she is seeing is abuse, gas lighting, someone very dysfunctional is behind it in the AC partnership to allow it to happen. It is not good for the GC, not good for the family and only serves the individual who wants so much control. If he sees he is succeeding in causing distress he will feel triumphant. However hard it is it is best to avoid these people as they have no empathy and certainly no compassion. Best make a life for the family without them. The GC will in time see it for themselves and reconcile with the wider family.

Am I right saying the AC is making up lies and allegations, stuff that has never happened? That can be seen as harassment and maybe a police matter. No one should have their lives turned upside down by lies even if the perp is an offspring. Sometimes a "talk" by the law wakes them up to reality.

I dont think that happens in families requires police intervention. Best of luck finding any police.

What can we do? Live our lives, let go of our children and rebuild something.
This is not to discount the pain of loss and grief expressed by some posters.

between think and that was a swear word which I turned into asterix which is obviously too contentious.

I used to babysit, clean houses, lend money, and general act like some sort of extremely versatile dogsbody. I am not in good health and sometimes have a lot of hospital appointments. I asked for one AC (who I was babysitting for most and who still has money due to me) to come with me to an appointment. I was ignored all that day but the next day it was can you babysit? I was stressed and in full panic mode and feeling very off colour. I could not babysit and since then I have been totally cut off.
Oh well at least I am not being shouted at, criticized or ridiculed for no good reason any more.
I wonder how the DGC will treat our NCAC in the future.

Westerly wind.....I hate to admit, but I think children in general are ungrateful users. My teenage grandson rings me 'what are you doing Nan- can you give me a lift here, can you give me a lift there. I told him I hope when I'm too old and unable to drive, he will return the favour. Hmmmm....I should be so lucky !!!!

Kitty74 please join me in writing the full word and forget about these acronyms they are sometimes difficult to understand, remember and mentally record and totally take the importance off the subject in question

Like many on here I don't see my AC or my 3 GC. It was also my choice after many months of therapy to go No Contact with my own mother. (not an easy decision).

I wont go into all the details, other than to say we can do our very best for our families but there comes a point when their behaviour has an effect on our own mental health (and sometimes physical health).

No matter what we say or do we cannot change the way other humans behave, we can only change the way we react to the behaviour. I have chosen to walk away from one minute being insulted then the next being ignored unless I am required to help out financially.

I have days when I feel a bit sad about the situation but on the whole I am happier without the constant stress I experienced from family members.

I do feel for everyone dealing with family stress but life is short and we have to look for the positive things in life and let the negative go