Support for all who are living with estrangement

Namsnanny your last post shows how important it is for you to continue posting for the benefit of everyone here, so please don't stop.

This thread is so important Namsnanny and your contributions to it are very helpful to us all. I agree with everything you have said

Namsnanny
I agree with you. I have lots of wonderful friends but none are in my situation, they're good listeners but try as they might they don't know the heartache , pain and sadness ..
So let us support one another here, without judgement..

Namsnanny - I agree with most of what to say. The thing is, many of us who have suffered estrangement issues are all at different stages of the process. When it first happened to me, I was full of indignation and felt I was right and they were wrong ....... nobody could have told me anything different. If you are not ready to hear things there is no point anyone telling you.

I heard a saying, ‘You don’t give a baby razor blades to play with’. Because they are not ready to know how to use them. It would be dangerous. Equally, if people are hurting and raw, it is no use telling them that they have to look at themselves as they might be the problem.

However, if one visits a good counsellor .... they will listen whilst you pour out your heart ...... then they will gradually lead you into looking at your whole situation, including where you might be contributing to the problem.

But we are not trained counsellors here, we do not know where the posters are on their journey. So perhaps it is best just to offer a listening ear and some words of comfort, rather than trying to fix them!

It may however, be helpful to tell people what you found useful in dealing with the same situation in your life. But softly softly catchee monkey!

Lovely posts ladies

It has often struck me that some posters seem unable to recognise perfectly human reactions to difficult, painful and sad events! Lecturing people facing and dealing with such pain, sometimes in somewhat unpleasant or thoughtless tones, will not help and are a complete waste of time. People cant hear it when suffering so much and anyway no one deserves to be "told off", lectured or be unkindly treated! Even hard to hear messages can be given kindly.
People who have suffered estrangement can give advice and support to others on the same road. And people who great it like me can listen and learn and offer support/suggestions if they can or ask for advice sometimes.. Namsnanny please keep posting!

....*fear it* not "great" !!!!

Hello to you all, I’m new to this discussion but not to GN. It has taken me awhile to read through from the beginning as it’s the least I could do out of respect for all the heartache so many of us are going through.

It is 1year 3months of estrangement from my only son, dil and GD. Why, what enormous crimes did I commit? Who knows.

Yes I did contact my son once, yes I did send cards and presents but it was a year before I got a supercilious, pompous reply. Have I spent all this time on introspection and examining my faults of which I sure I have many, yes.

Luckily I have not been alone as I have lovely friends in this position who I can talk to. Unfortunately our EAC seem to be in the spoilt brats category. Best of education (ha) help with property purchase, child care, emotional support etc. I have come to the conclusion I am guilty of being a donkey, only to ready to carry the load. Just to make things clear I am not on their doorstep, it requires an expensive ferry trip
to see them. You cannot imagine how hard I have worked at not being the mother in law from hell.

Having read carefully all the sadness on here I know I’ll be in good and supportive company. OK I’ll tell you how I’m dealing with it. If I ever see son and GD again it will be in my home or neutral territory. I never want to see dil who in my opinion is not a woman as she is trying to recreate the sick home life she is used to. Harsh yes. I am changing my will to benefit my GD and goddaughter. Oh, and we are having the most fabulous holidays. Life without cutting my feet by treading on eggshells is wonderful, we intend to have the most fulfilling life in our own simple way. Lots of friends, volunteering locally with interesting people. Learning new skills.

I’m really not interested in negative comments from the tiny minority on here.

Hello MacCavity2. It is good that you have reached the place you have in your situation. It takes so much out of us, it's just relentless, questioning yourself and whether you were good enough. I can honestly say from my own point of view I did my best, none of us are perfect, it takes a long time to come to terms with everything.

I am glad you have reached where you are, you will have the peace you deserve.

Oh grans my heart aches with sympathy for you as I have been through this myself (and posted previously) and come through the other end.

It is true that you question your own parenting behaviour in the beginning. personallyI couldn’t see where the whole No Contact had come from - that my daughter even knew about it, let alone could implement it knowing the pain it would cause and then keep doing it for years in spite of my pleas to right whatever was wrong.

With the benefit of hindsight and much reflection, I think she found me too confident, too knowing and too ready to disagree with her on so many things. She appears to need unconditional approval and if it isn’t given she can’t do what I do - shrug and change the subject.

After 5 years of much effort (on my part, she was unwilling), we have been building bridges for the last eight years and are now in a very good place but I have learned to keep my thoughts to myself and live the motto ‘If I can’t say something nice, I say nothing at all!

So please don’t give up hope ladies, don’t stop living good lives and don’t stop posting on here to help others - it means so much to know you’re not alone.

Reading this thread again today has helped me stay grounded.

I've posted before and some may recall that I'm only treated badly by my SIL. I am back in my daughter's home as my SIL agreed that I'm her mother and deserve to visit BUT he goes away during my stay.

My DD has an operation booked for tomorrow, so I was needed for childcare. Last week my SIL stayed away at a flat they own. DD, DGS and I went away for a few days midterm holiday but on our return, SIL moved out for a week and a half. He's back each day now but he stays in work and has lunch there and doesn't want to eat in the evenings. He goes to his office and stays there. Weekends he goes away. If I didn't know better I'd say he's having an affair. Yet when they're speaking they are quite amicable, laughing and joking but she is like a single Mum.

When my GS asked doesn't Daddy like you grandma? I made some excuse about Daddy's work being stressful, but I can't describe how it feels to be a non-person in their home. Flight home is booked for next week and my DD and GS have their flight to me booked for Easter hols.I've never been treated like this in my life before, as though I'm a wicked person.

Thank you for reading. I know some of you would love to have as much contact as I with DD/DS and GC, but honestly to feel so unwanted and ignored is awful.

We can only help each other by sharing and saying hang in there. Carolina is so right- it helps to know we're not alone.

Really all I want to say is, bless you supportive and understanding posters for trying to help in such a minefield.

Well done McTavity! You can’t control what they do but you can control what you do. Keep on enjoying the holidays! I applaud you .... you have taken co troll of your life! X

I meant MacCavity2

Thank you Pythagorus I just hope my experience can help others going through this nightmare. I feel it is healthier for us to get angry rather than get depressed. Not that I’m any sort of expert, just bumbling along like everyone else.

Just to make you laugh ....... Last year I gave my only son ..... who is once again under the influence of a domineering GF, £3k on his birthday. We can give £3k away each year according to the HMRC rules. Well it does make sense was his comment ....... not thank you mum! Anyhow since then I have been largely ignored ....... he is under the thumb ...... I had lunch with a rather blunt friend today and was telling her that I didn’t intend to do it this year ....... after last years reaction. But I told my friend I felt I had to send a card and a token present ...... OK was her reply ..... put a pound coin in the envelope with the card! Lol! We did laugh! Needless to say, I didn’t, but put some foreign currency in, not too much, as they are off abroad for his birthday weekend. I am with MacCavity ... it the ungrateful beggars out and leave it to the grandchildren! And start spending! X

Good for you Py. We only have control of our own actions. I chose not to sent a birthday card to my son, for all the birthday, Christmas and mother’s day cards I didn’t receive. Of course I’ll always send cards and presents to my GD.

Goodness Py what a very generous gift to your son. I'm sure you can find someone else to spend the money on this year- YOU! Well it does make sense Mum! xx

Hi, McCavity! I'm not sure if Iv met you before because I'm not always here. I'm not estranged from anyone but have friends who are and know that "there but for the grace of God, etc." So sorry about your estrangement from ds and family, but glad you've managed to adjust. Like Smileless, you're a sign that there's a light at the end of the tunnel even if it's not as bright as we'd like.

You say that if you ever see your son and gd again it will be without dil. Do you feel she's the cause of this estrangement? It sounds like a good idea to just see them without her. There are some gps here who do that kind of thing. In fact, I'm wondering if you can invite son and gd some time soon? Would it be possible? Hugs!

Of course, my heart aches for the others here who are estranged from ac and gd, as ever. Carolina, I'm glad you figured out how to "come out on the other side," as you say. I'm sure you're an inspiration to some of the egps here! If I'm reading correctly, it was just a matter of not criticizing. It's not always easy to hold one's tongue, I know, but I'm glad you've learned how. I'll keep your experience in mind, myself, as I'm afraid my dd might go nc, too, if she thought I was too critical. I didn't like my dm criticizing me, but it never occurred to me to cut her out of our lives. I think the young people get these ideas from each other and, oh yeah, certain Internet sites (there's a thread about that here someplace). It's just the reality of the times, I guess (sigh). Hugs!

Ginny, it actually hurt ME when I saw you say you're a "non-person" in dd's house. You are NOT a non-person! Please don't think of yourself that way just because one person - sil - doesn't seem to care for you. He seems to go out of his way to avoid you, but that hardly means you are "unwanted" - well, ok, maybe you're not wanted by him, but dd and gs want you. I realize I'm not the one going through it and maybe I don't know how it feels, but I think you're giving him too much power by letting his behavior affect you as if the whole family were against you. It's just him and tg he has agreed that dd has a right to have you there. That tells me she probably spoke up for you or for her needing/wanting you in her and gs' life.

Perhaps his staying away is best, there would probably be a lot of tension if he hung around. If gs asks again why sil "doesn't like" you, I think you should tell him to ask sil. Let sil have to explain himself to his child. Maybe that will get him to rethink his behavior, maybe not, but you can't answer for someone else, anyhow. Hugs!

Sorry that was so long a post!

Good morning lovely ladies. I hope you're all as well as you can be. I haven't posted for some time as, quite frankly, its been a struggle to even get up in the morning.

Those of you who remember me will know that my daughter-in-law refused to allow me any contact with my granddaughter, other than one very brief visit when she was three months old. I had just come home after a four month hospital stay, having survived sepsis, which left me with mobility problems. So, as I am a widow, and even if I had been allowed, I was unable to make the 400 mile round trip to visit alone. My son did everything in his power to change things, but when he was subjected to actual physical violence, I told him to give up for the little ones sake. He came home alone regularly. I have recently learned just exactly how bad things became and the full nightmare he has suffered.

With the backing of and advice from a very militant feminist group, his wife embarked on a campaign of terror to deprive my son of all parental rights. She involved the police several times, making completely false accusations, but which ensured their attention. She would never allow my son to have time with his daughter without her being present. I could go on, but suffice to say that although his health suffered, my son stood firm against what can only be described as a reign of terror. The final straw came when she instigated a court case to remove my son from the home he owns, and him to have only occasional access, supervised by her.

Can you imagine what we have been through?

However, we fought back and on Friday THE JUDGE THREW IT OUT OF COURT. He said the case should never have been brought. My son's parenting was without fault and the Caffcass report which the case was based on, was seriously flawed and biased towards the mother.

It has cost thousands of pounds and risks to health but thank God for someone who saw through the vicious BS.

My son has since moved out, and has access three times a week initially, with overnights to be arranged, once the dust settles. I pray that his wife doesn't make waves, but given her history, I'm worried.

So lovelies, I will finally be able to have a relationship with my beautiful granddaughter in the near future, Although it's heartbreaking to know that this little girl's life is about to change irrevocably, all because her mother's possessiveness bordered on insanity.

The ongoing control of my son by his live in gf continues! The difference is that now I can laugh at it when what I predict will happen does take place! I invited son and gf out for lunch at a lovely french restaurant on his birthday weekend. He accepted but cancelled two days later as he ‘had forgotten’ they were going away for the weekend! I didn’t cancel the table, but will take friends instead. Not to be deterred, I said well why don’t we go out three weeks later on my birthday weekend. He accepted and later cancelled as he had forgotten ‘they had plans that weekend’. He didn’t offer any alternatives ..... I said, don’t worry, just let me know when you have a Friday or Sat night free! It won’t happen! He does however bring the GC round once a month for lunch. GF doesn’t come and keeps texting him to ask when he will be home! You have to laugh! Strange how some men allow themselves to get into this position. His previous one was the same. I don’t try to understand it anymore. But I do know there are many mothers who don’t even get what I get so I am just going with the flow. Remember, we will always be their mother, the possessive DILs/GFs may not always be around! In my case when one left it wasn’t long before he picked another exactly the same! Lol! Stupid boy! But perhaps he is a slow learner. We keep making the mistake until we learn the lesson.

Took me a long time not to get worked up about it, but I have finally learned MY lesson.

Remember dear fellow posters, we can’t change what they do but we can change how we react to it! X

Ginny - I can hardly believe how your SIL behaves. It seems very extreme. But why should you worry? You are getting to see your daughter and GCs. It is very inconvenient for him doing what he does. Unless he is having an affair! If he isn’t, he will soon get fed up leaving the family home. Doesn’t sound like an arrangement that can continue indefinitely. Something has to give!

Irishrose - This sounds similar to my son and his first wife ..... and like you I rejoiced that I would be able to see my GC in a normal manner. It was wonderful for a couple of years ...... then he met no 2 .... almost identical. So if you can persuade your son to talk to a counsellor to understand how he let himself get into that situation, perhaps it may ensure he doesn’t do what mine did .... and do it again!

Irishrose what an awful time for you all. I hope you can enjoy a relationship with your grandchild now