Support for all who are living with estrangement

Aquamarine...Hope you found sleep last night ?

rosecarmel...You right of course, about the later impact of our parenting. Its such a shock though isn't it, when for the most part you thought you were doing things for the best?
We none of us are perfect, well I can only speak for myself and I know I'm not.
What is it they used to say, The road to hell is paved with good intentions?

Aquamarine.....

So true Namsnanny - as mothers I’m sure we all did our best give our children a better life than the one we had (the whole point of having them) and yes we made mistakes, as our parents did and as our children will surely do.

However, I don’t understand the lack of empathy/compassion from some of the younger generation - the inability to have an honest discussion without resorting to going ballistic which is what I consider No Contact to be.

to all x

Carolina55 How strange that you think the whole point of having children is not that you just want to have children but that you want to make something right from your own childhood. I shall be pilloried for this comment, as I was once before, in spite of the fact that family estrangement is a sorrow in my life – although nothing to do with my lovely and loving daughter.

Aqua - as has been said sadly there are many of us who have experienced what you are going through, which I know doesn't help you but we do understand. Believe me when I tell you that it does get easier over time. There will be days when it hits you again as though it had just happened, but these become fewer and less painful and you will be able to think of your GD without crying.

I keep a memory box for my GC and put little bits and pieces in for them - birthday cards, Christmas cards, small gifts and the things I've made for them. I have said before I need to calm down with it as the box is getting bigger and bigger but I think naturally over time maybe I won't feel so compelled to buy presents! Obviously we have no idea if the GC will ever see the box but if they do they'll see we think of them, remember them, and more importantly that we love them always.

Carolina55 the whole point of my DH and I having children wasn't to give them a better life than we had. We had our children because we wanted them.

Absent - you will definitely not be pilloried by me for disagreeing with something I said and I’d hope that none of the other grans on here would do it either. We’re all entitled to state a point of view without that horrible reaction.

Perhaps I put it over in a very simplistic way when I suggested the point of having children was to give them a better life than you had yourself but my heart is pure on this - if each generation can improve on the job their own parents did then surely that’s a good thing?

I've woken crying.. I went to my GD's nursery yesterday , the day i would normally see her. I knew her other grandparents would of picked her up, this would normally been my task. I've been doing this for nearly 3 years. I thanked the nursery staff for looking after her , I had written a card , doestnt seem enough but I know my little GD loves going to nursery, and she always likes to give them a hug goodbye. I know she'll have stability and fun there, so I thanked them from the bottom of my heart. They knew I wouldn't be picking up my GD up anymore, obviously AC had informed them, so we cried together, just seemed to happen, I'd built a friendly relationship with the staff after such a time.
It was important for to me to say thank you and goodbye.....
So Friday was a hard day , my first Friday in nearly 3 years of not seeing GD.....
Of course it's only natural to think what we'd be doing, singing together, of which my son always said wasn't necessary, sharing books, playing, baking, activities doing with granny, it wasn't the activity , it was about sharing/spending time with granny.....
I can't shake the thought like I let her down, I know she loves me, my intuition told me this day would come. I'd promised last week i'd make her Reindeer cakes, and that we'd paint yesterday, she was excited last week. I can't imagine what AC told her, brain washing , granny's busy, granny doestnt want to see you, how have they explained this....
I just see her little innocent face, bewilderment, I miss her cuddles, touch and laughter.
I can't stop crying, what was, what should of been, what won't be.
I have some little toys at home, photos i can't bear it.
I do have close friends , they're extremely supportive.
My family have always accepted the sister situation, they were never supportive when it happened, the affair, betrayal, deceipt, 4 years of acrimonious divorce, for them nothing changed, they never told her it was wrong, just tapped her on the back, and for them nothing changed, they still have a daughter and same SIL.....
So loss is familiar to me, but this is right through to my heart, I love her sooo much, it's cruel, mean and wicked.
So lovely people , the tears keep rolling, my thoughts stuck at my little GD so innocent, waiting for me, I've let her down, how can I live with that....

Just to say ginny42 my first husband is my sons father. I never had a chance with my sister in background constantly, it was always going to be a struggle. It's a toxic family. It doesn't help my DIL very close to her, my sister ( sons aunty, GD's great aunt but now renamed to grandma) , yes I'm bitter, who wouldn't be.... So yes it's toxic. I've always felt she's manipulating matters, she's literally now taken everything I've loved..... So I do see its been hard for AC, but he lacks empathy , and unfortunately is surrounded by wickedness, and meanness. I had hoped he'd have some of my softer qualities, but nature versus nurture ???

Carolina55 Just needed to say I found your message very simple to understand and reflects the efforts of most grandparents go to in giving our children a better life than we experienced. How your words were misinterpreted I cannot understand.
Aqua my heart breaks for you, do you have someone you can talk to?

Aqua, you are coping with so much deceit and family connivance. My ex left with my friend, and that hurt, but your sister? What a shock and so much hurt. To be wiped out of your grandchild's life now and for her to take your place is pain beyond belief. What they are doing to you is cruel. You son appears weak to me, is that an unfair judgement?

At the moment each day is a huge challenge, but it will ease. Take comfort from the fact that you are the better person. You haven't let your granddaughter down, they have. They are failing her by depriving her of your love. No doubts about that.

It's a lot to bear, but let the tears flow. Keep talking to us. We're listening.

Your kind words , really do mean so much. No one I have ever spoken to or anyone I know have been in my situation. I can only say my loss is like bereavement, that's not simplifying bereavement or saying that's not any less traumatic, but it does feel like a loss. I can't stop being tearful.
She's in my thoughts, and I didn't want this for her. I'm sort of angry my son feels the necessity to do this, it's cruel beyond words. There's no talking/discussion. He won't actually talk to me, he seems angry , very angry.
I do think he's weak, but am unable to do anything. He's my only child, sad....

Yes, it is bereavement. You are mourning the loss of the life you thought you would have with this little girl being cut short. I was fortunate when I found a counsellor after my very complex divorce who was also a bereavement counsellor and she treated me as bereaved.

I'd lost both parents before my 26th birthday and believe me, bereavement in the case you describe is the same deeply human loss. It hurts because they have chosen to do this. xx

Aquamarine you haven't let your GD down, please believe that. Your son and his wife have done that.

It's unforgivable how some parents will use their children as weapons to inflict pain and suffering on not only the GP's being denied them, but their own children who love them and will be totally confused at no longer being able to spend time with the GP's they love.

Those of us living with this estrangement, know the pain it brings. We've been estranged from our youngest son and only GC, for more than 6 years and for 6 years I've been reading and posting on the estrangement threads here on GN.

I have to say your's is one of the most heartbreaking and cruelest account I have come across.

You are not alone and you're not crying alone. I cannot read your posts without shedding a tear.

Take care xx

I'm going to try to gain support from others in this horrid situation. My husband and I went out today but really I wasn't interested, normally I'm bright and positive, but now I'm full of hopelessness and still the tears fall. I saw a little girl out about same age as GD and cried, my husband really angry at my son, he loves GD to bits, I can't bear any of her little toys here at home, the thought of them saying untruths to her really upset me, granny's busy, granny doesn't want to see you.... Incredibly sad and hard for me to deal with ...

Your situation sounds so familiar. The bond we feel and build up with our gc is so strong, much stronger than I imagined. It's very difficult to focus on anything else. I wish you strength.

I bought a note book today , writing my thoughts down, feelings, words. I am taking note of suggestions , thank you lovely people, but still tearful, who knows about time , don't think my pain will ever go....

Aqua, correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to still harbor a lot of bitterness toward your ex and his wife.

Now, what happened to you absolutely wasn't right as far as the affair. You have every right to be angry. My concern is that it's possible you have never processed that anger and that could have impacted your relationship with your other family.

You may want to consider going to a counselor about the anger regarding the affair. You may find that it's helpful moving forward, if only for yourself.

MacCavity2 thank you for your understanding- of course we all have our children because we want them, but some of us also want a better life for them than the one we had and I don’t see that as a bad thing.

This is supposed to be SUPPORT for ALL living with estrangement. Not sticking the knife in when we are already bleeding. Stick your physio babble!

Agnurse, I have seen a counselor, but it didn't help, think my situation is unique as my sister still around and still manipulates and brain washes. She moved to be closer to my AC , it's alot more complicated than seems to an outsider.

What ‘concern’ is it of yours agnurse? If aqua has feelings they are perfectly natural ones and I’m sure she is dealing with them as best she can.

You certainly are in a unique situation Aquamarine, and you must deal with it in your own way. You sister plays a huge part in this alienation and most people would buckle under that kind of pressure. Forgive yourself for feeling overwhelmed.

At times I've felt I'd lost the ability to feel any emotions at all, I've felt so emotionally dead. I guess at some point the mind goes into shut down mode to prevent further hurt.

It takes a massive amount of courage to survive, but you will. Survive for your granddaughter's sake in spite of the blow you've been dealt. xx

Not much sleep.. I wake to reality and realise what that means....
Ginny42 you speak so knowingly, what's your situation, I wonder.
At the moment I sometimes don't see the point in surviving, not even for GC , what's the ponit, I'll never see her. My AC has quite deliberately made this situation, he doesn't see the harm or cruelness in his actions, a cruel wicked wife, other grandparents in the background, GC will soon forget me, she's little, and our memories made will soon fade, that's the harsh reality....
There's no grace of me in their house, I was obliterated, quite intentionally, again cruel, is that normal behaviour , whatever i was deeply upset and hurt. I haven't discussed this with AC as I thought it would make things worse but that's already happened.

Trace,....not grace...!

Aquamarine, it hurts to see your posts and how much you are suffering. To say you have nothing to live for, that is so untrue, at the moment you can't see a way forward or out of the situation, you need to take a big step back from it. The parents of your beloved granddaughter, hold her future in their hands unless you begin court proceedings, which will just antagonise, a person will move miles or countries if there is some one they feel they want out of their lives, whatever a court decides. You have your husband, mine had died, you have his support, go forward and hopefully things will change, send cards to gd with a simple loving message in it that a parent will think ok and not put it in the bin, no presents, start a bank account for her. Be the patient, loving and calm one in all this bitterness, because the sad truth is you have no control over any if it. If I had my time back wish I had done this. life really is too prescious trying to make sense and alter what unreasonable choose to do. Good luck. You cannot alter anyone just your reaction to them.