Don't know what to do

We are not the only one's trying to support her, her sense of isolation is being alone in a foreign country which has been intensified by seemingly being disconnected from her p's.i.l.

Her parents are of course dong what they can, one in the UK and the other abroad making a difficult situation even more complicated. So you see Luckylegs we are not the only ones doing what little we can.

Bluebell she's never wanted to bypass her in laws but m.i.l. ignoring her messages, f.i.l. 'de friending' her on FB and b.i.l. blocking her has made it impossible to have contact.

You said in an earlier post how our personal experiences can influence our behaviour and that's very true. We were on the receiving end of the silent treatment from friends of our ES, some who'd we'd known from childhood. A very upsetting experience that we wouldn't want anyone to go through.

After almost 6 years, some have recently been in contact, all be it casually. Now as parents and seeing the joy that their children have brought to their parents, their children's GP's, has perhaps made them see us being cut out of our son's and only GC's lives in a different light.

Doing what you believe is the right thing isn't always easy especially when you don't know how dear and old friends may respond Starlady. We can only hope that when the time comes, they will understand that our love and support for their d.i.l. never detracted from our love for them and their son.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and advice.

However, I'm not totally convinced that dil has no one else to turn to. Ime, people who say that are often saying it to more than one person. If she can keep in touch with and get support from you, she can keep in touch with and get support from her family. I realize that might be hard since he doesn't want her to. But if she has her own fb account, she can message them there (if any of them are on fb).

I realize that this poor young woman is experiencing emotional abuse (those text messages), no matter what the reason. And so, I don't blame you for staying in touch with her and being kind and supportive when you do. I just suspect that she's in touch with at least one or two other people who are supportive of her. Please don't feel as if you and Mr. S. are the only ones.

Also, I hope you never say anything against your friend's son when you speak to her, especially if it's in print (email or fb message, etc.). Saying, "I'm so sorry" when she shows you a nasty text is very different, imo, than saying, "He's so abusive!"

Actually, I hope this young woman can get some kind of counseling where she is to learn how to deal with the abuse and maybe get out of the situation.

Has she thought of just coming home to the UK? Would she be able to bring the kids with her if she did?

Rereading your op here, Smileless, I see that the son doesn't want his parents to be in contact with dil. Chances are, he doubled down on his efforts to get them to end contact, and that this is why fil blocked her. Also, I agree that mil must have influenced fil.

They love their ds, of course, and may see the situation differently than you and Mr.S do. You don't know what he's telling them. And yes, I agree that gc are a big motivator. They may be afraid that if they go against their son or get involved in any way, he might manage to keep them from contact with the gc.

If your friends find out that you've been giving your support to dil, I hope they understand or at least see that as your prerogative. If they get angry, hopefully, they'll get past it in time and not throw away all those years of friendship. Please realize, however, that there's a chance they might pull away from you two for a little while - or longer. You have to do what you think is right (supporting dil), but, as I'm sure you know, sometimes that comes with a price.

Then again, they may be very glad that you two are supporting dil since they can't. I sincerely hope they either don't find out or understand if they do.

I understand what you’re saying Smileless of course you don’t see it as a betrayal you sound like a lovely kind person who wants to help but I d be mortified if my friend was befriending one or other behind my back What I would expect her to do is come to me and say so and so has been ringing me up looking for support what on earth should I do then she as my best friend would either say please keep out of it we must leave it to them to sort out, or she’d say that’s lovely she needs support how kind of you
I really don’t think it needs any more information about the situation given on here but can’t you see that first it needs the couple to sort their own problems out, without outside intervention, second if needed her own family to support love and advise (if asked) and thirdly again only if asked her in laws but the fact she is bypassing all those people to confide in you sounds worrying You just do not know the back story or the reason the husband has changed character and in one post you say they both behaved badly it could be a different scenario to what you are hearing or imagining
There must be a reason she is not turning to her own family. You could so easily (through your kindness) get sucked into a big family war
Please take care of your kind heart

When I read this I felt a few alarm bells ringing. There are two sides to every story. Why is she in daily contact with you Smileless? If she can get in contact with you she could be with others. If your involvement with this girl is not known by your friends, this would be viewed as taking sides and interfering, they must be suffering too, the girl has been blocked for a reason and its family business. You don't know the wholesome only what this girl wants you to hear. The couple will sort things out. Lots of us don't want dirty linen discussed on Facebook, me for one. That's why I'm not on it. Things should be sorted out privately by the couple and their families. I don't mean to be hard but I do wonder why a young woman would say she has only one person, to confide yet is on Facebook with presumably no friends.

Yes Gill I think that is the reason. He told me a couple of months ago that she said they have to support their son which of course they do. Love him and support him but not condone his bad behaviour just because he is their son.

We've been through a lot as friends over the years and their support of us has been and remains invaluable. We're all to aware of the damage that lies and manipulation can do to the closest of relationships, as are they by virtue of our experience.

It's not easy to see your son behaving in a way you'd never have thought possible or the son of a dear friend who you've known from child hood.

She's not the type to interfere with their relationship with their GC but it's going to make things difficult in the future if she feels they regard her as the enemy.

I don't think you are betraying a friendship smileless, just offering a listening ear to someone in a desperate state. I wonder if your male friend has disconnected from his DiL due to pressure from his wife and son? Nobody but the couple concerned know what goes on in a relationship or why it breaks, but this young woman is trying to hold her family together and needs to know there is someone who will not judge and who she can turn to. I do hope that your friends do not get offended when they find out ( they will, their son will probably tell them, just to stir things up a bit more), hopefully your own experiences of estrangement will make them think carefully before they judge. We can all love our children without liking their behaviour, and surely they do not wish to risk being unable to see their grandchildren, especially after seeing what you and your husband have been through.

Well we don't regard it as a betrayal Bluebell. As I've previously posted, it isn't possible for us to talk about what's going on as they don't wish to discuss it. If and when they do we will of course be prepared to talk about it with them.

If you were in a similar situation and talking to your friend and then discovered that she was "supporting one or other without (you) knowing", I could understand you being upset by that if your friend was agreeing with you to your face and disagreeing behind your back, but I don't see being there for someone and offering them what support you can as an act of betrayal.

I would like to think that a friendship which spans many years wouldn't have to be re thought, and that support being given in a very difficult situation wouldn't be seen as a huge betrayal, why should it?

I don't, have never and never would expect anyone be they family or friend to support my AC, just because they are my AC, regardless of how they're behaving. We haven't heard from him but if or when we do, there's nothing we've said to his estranged wife that we wouldn't be prepared to say to him.

Thanks for the explanation Smileless, so are you living in the same country as this lady? as you say her family can’t do much as she’s so far away from them, are you nearer ? If not I think it’s her families place and not yours I suppose I find it really hard to understand why you have such a big part in it all
I am thinking of it from my own situation I have a very close best friend who has known my children from small just like you but if during my adult child’s marriage break up I found my friend was supporting one or other without me knowing I would be mortified and see it as a huge betrayal and really have to think twice about our friendship
I don’t even think its the place of her in laws to try and sort it out, much less a family friend

She agreed to go with him because he had a job offer and it was his desire to go there Bluebell. Because of her reluctance it was agreed that they wouldn't stay there for more than 2.5 years maximum. The family moved there, she didn't join him there later.

'EH' is estranged husband.

No one is perfect and of course we realise that but we have more than her side of the story. We have seen first hand how he's changed and until very recently she had her f.i.l.'s full support and understanding which is why his decision to block her on FB was such a shock for her.

We hope that our love and support will help her feel less isolated and alone. Her family are doing what they can but the fact she lives so far away in another country makes the whole thing far more complicated, especially from a legal perspective.

I have worried that our ongoing contact and support would be disloyal to our friends as it's happening without their knowledge. However, had they chosen to tell us about what's been going on, and of course it's their prerogative not too, we would have been transparent from the beginning.

There is no way we would condone his behaviour, if it were coming from her or one of our own sons. We are a
part of their lives by virtue of the fact that we've known him since he was a little boy and have been in regular contact with him, and as a consequence his wife, for years.

I find some of your original post difficult to understand Smileless she didn’t want to go for a 2.5 year period. They have been there 3.5? did she join him then or what does that mean ?and what ever is an EH ?
Anyway beyond that I don’t really see how your deep involvement can help Smileless, you have obviously become close friends with the wife so are hearing her side only and are infuriated for her but without really knowing the back story What if she had played a part in the breakups
None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors and we surmise all sorts depending very much on our own experiences, we mentally judge things very differently depending on our own life’s happenings
Surely you should stay loyal to your friends and not take sides until you have more information
If this young lady is so upset unhappy and stuck in a foreign country why are her OWN family not helping her ?
I don’t really think it’s your call at all unless your friends ask you to be part of these young people lives
Let both sets of parents do what is needed

I've always believed that 'honesty is the best policy' Starlady. Not always the easiest way to be but ultimately the best.

I like fb for the same reason as crazyH. But I know it can be hurtful sometimes. So sorry dil blocked you crazyH. And, Smileless, I'm sorry to hear that your fil friend blocked his dil.

Glad you and Mr. S. didn't bring the topic up and that they didn't either. It might have just led to an argument and hurt your friendship.

Agree with your decision to be honest if they ask if you're in contact with her. Because I believe in being honest, and because if you lied and they found out, it wouldn't go over very well.

My almost estranged d.i.l. has also blocked me - son is not on FB anyway.

I do like FB because it keeps me in touch with old, old friends, and we get to see the families etc and stay in the loop, so to speak.

We met up with our friends while we were away and nothing was mentioned so we didn't bring it up. When we got back we had a message from their d.i.l. telling us he (her f.i.l.) has blocked her on FB.

I hate FB, Mr. S. partakes but I don't. It's a wonderful tool for keeping in touch but also enables people to do horrible things like this.

Sad to say, this hasn't come as a complete surprise as far as he's concerned but I can hardly believe it of my friend. We've decided to say nothing unless they bring it up and if they do, and ask if we're in contact with her we'll be honest and say yes.

Just 2 years ago, my friend was so close to her d.i.l., getting ready to go and stay with her to help her when her new baby was born as her son works away.

It's frightening how quickly things can change and even more frightening when there' no justification for it.

* advise, not advice, LOL!

Smileless, I'm sorry you're in this tricky position. I agree with those posters who advice saying little or nothing and to avoid appearing to take sides. Does the dil have parents or other family members she can confide in? It would be better for her to seek their support than that of her soon-to-be xh's parents' friends. But she has to figure that out by herself, of course.

I think it would be best to stay fairly non-committal if speaking to your friends; however, you can still support the DIL without being too partisan. Sometimes someone in distress just wants a listening ear and not necessarily an opinion.
I hope she can manage to come back to the UK - and I hope all her family and friends here will be able to support her.

I wonder if he is having an affair. If someone is having an affair they can tell themselves that it is because their partner is unreasonable, unloving, unkind - all kinds of untruths because it absolves them from guilt about the affair. The worse they behave towards their partner (who then becomes distressed or even angry) the more they can justify their actions to themselves.

Most of all, the children need to be in a calmer atmosphere as it sounds as if the parents could be arguing around them if the father has witnessed this and his son's behaviour was off the radar.
He has not been taking drugs has he?
If that is one of the accusations, that could explain his change in behaviour.

Yes Gill they know both of our boys as well as we know theirs. We've never shied away from their well meant and honest criticism of our ES.

If it's wrong it's wrong isn't it. It doesn't become right just because it's your son whose behaving badly. I just want them to talk to her, to listen to what she's got to say rather than judge her on the say of their son.

They were with them several months ago and I know that they witnessed some pretty unpleasant behaviour from both of them, it has to be said, but f.i.l. told us his son's behaviour was off the radar.

It isn't easy coming to terms with cruel and abusive behaviour from your own AC and no body knows that better than us but it has to be done.

If they face up to what's happening they may well be able to help him and if they talk openly to us, we may be able to help them. Thank you.

Surely Smileless, your friends would understand your concerns, especially as they have been such good understanding friends while you have been dealing with your own sadness regarding sons, Dil, and grandchildren? Presumably they know your son as well as you know theirs, so are aware of how unexpected and inexplicable behaviour can be? I do hope that you, as long standing friends, can give comfort to each other, and your female friend ( who sounds as if she is in shock, to be honest), can speak about this dreadful situation with you.

Thank you agnurse and Gill I agree that it is important for them to stay in touch with their d.i.l., f.i.l. is making an effort all be it sporadically but m.i.l. is remaining pretty much silent.

The poor girl is so distraught. She's terribly thin and has dark circles around her eyes. I just hope that our friends will see that supporting their son doesn't mean they have to condone his bad behaviour.

For his own sake he needs to behave. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's already made life difficult for himself by putting the majority of his verbal abuse in writing.

We've been friends for such a long time and they've been a tower of strength to us through our troubles. It would break my heart if we were to fall out but my heart is breaking for this poor girl.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Unfortunately there are children involved crazy all under the age of 10.

Sadly, this is not completely out of character kittylester but we would never have expected him to go to such extremes. You're right, we have unwittingly taken sides but not just because of what we've been told. We spent some time with them last year and his behaviour toward his children and his wife left a lot to be desired.

It was near impossible not to pick him up on it but somehow we managed.

She wants to return to the UK humptydumpty hence the court application for re settlement. It's a terrible situation. He knows she wants to come back but refuses to return here.

She doesn't want to take the children so far away from their father but feels she has no choice. She has no friends there and is totally reliant on him financially which he's using to try and control her.

You're right Mawbroom and Willow, it would be wrong for us to bring this up, we need to to see if they mention it to us. We're torn between hoping they will and hoping they wont.

We're hoping and praying that the court hearing goes well. That the judge orders a fixed sum to be paid into her bank account on a regular basis, that a neutral place is agreed upon for him to collect and return the children so he doesn't have to go to the house and that he's told not to message her any further unless it's about arrangements for the children.

Hopefully, if he gets his wrists slapped which I'm sure he will, he'll calm down and start to behave reasonably. He's told her he's told his parents about all of the lies she's telling and his mum has said she hates her.

I've known my friend for 30 years and just know she'd never say such a thing.

Oh what a dreadful situation to be caught in the middle of. Obviously your friends will support their son, but surely they will also wish to keep a line of communication open with their DiL and their grandchildren? The problem with saying nothing is that when they find out you have had contact with their DiL, and they will find out, you could be cast as taking sides. If possible, tell them you are in contact, don't take sides, emphasise that you know their are two sides to every break up, that you love their son dearly, but you also feel sorry for this vulnerable DiL who has, by the sounds of it, given up her career to follow her husband's path, and is now being cast adrift. Don't dump the poor girl though, it does sound desperate.

Ouch.

I would suggest not saying anything to them. I can understand you being upset. I'm bothered by what's going on. The thing is, a parent's instinct is to protect a child. By definition they will likely feel defensive about their son.

I would suggest maintaining open lines of communication with the DIL if at all possible. This isn't being a traitor to your friends. You don't have to advertise that you're supporting her. Rather it's about not putting yourself in the middle of their conflict.

I am sorry that you are in this position, smileless but I think you have unwittingly taken sides. If you say nothing to your friends and their DiL says she has been in contact with you, will they be angry that you kept it to yourself? Or that you appear to be on her side.

Do you know that what she says is true? If this is out of character for your friends' son, what has caused the change? Is he ill, is the DiL making things up.

If you value their friendship you should be open with them.