Life seen from Different Generations' Perspectives.

Hmm, no!

Just carry on doing stuff you enjoy, you're not hurting anyone and it makes you happy.

Thanks Luckylegs9 I shall!

No, and I would likely have something to say to them if they ever did!
Your life, your house Tilly so tell them that.

As my house is much tidier than both of theirs, and I am fanatic recycler, which they are not to the same extent, they would be on a hiding to nothing if they were so rude as to comment in this way.

Recycling is not the same as hoarding, recycled materials are passed on, hoards are kept,

Tillybelle if my children were as critical as yours seem to be I would be saying to them that it's your house, your life and if they can't think of anything nice to say then please don't say anything.

However your children may have a point if you are living in conditions where everything is pretty dirty, you can barely move around or find somewhere to sit down due to the amount of "stuff" everywhere, if you have stacks of old newspapers and cardboard around the house (a serious fire hazard) and quantities of out of date foodstuffs in your cupboards then you may have a problem with hoarding and need to seek help to deal with that issue. Serious hoarding is a problem when old habits of frugality become an end in themselves and hanging onto "stuff" meets other needs. ?

I agree that it's very situation-dependent.

If you're displaying a vase or a painting, that's art. If you're displaying something that is very old and falling apart, that's rubbish.

If you're crocheting or knitting or sewing or painting and you have your things in a reasonable order, that's a hobby. If you have your stuff spread over half the living room and your things are absolutely EVERYWHERE, that's a mess. (Even with "messier" hobbies involving many small pieces, it is possible to keep things in reasonable order. Speaking from experience.)

If you're saving pieces of clothing, cutting them up, and making them into quilt squares, or if you're using old Christmas card boxes to hold food gifts for friends, that's recycling. If you have stacks and stacks of 50-year-old magazines that you're keeping "in case someone wants to read an article", that's hoarding. (I am not exaggerating on the 50-year-old magazines. My grandparents did this. Fortunately when they moved to a smaller home they did have the foresight to get rid of many things.)

Generally "hoarding" is defined as a situation where the person is keeping things of little, if any, value, can't bear to get rid of them, and just keeps adding to the hoard.

I do not hoard....on the other hand, there's stuff I should have kept....eg: I should have kept a couple of vases, instead of taking them to the charity shop. When I had a birthday in August, I got flowers from people who I didn't expect flowers from and I had only 2 vases. So I'll be going to the charity shop to buy back my vases ?

Apricity. Thanks for your wise words.

Currently, because of the dreadful things a very bad and criminal builder did to my house, I do have some of my things still stored, as the house is not finished and I do not yet have cupboards and shelves in place. The floors have to be taken up for one thing. Of course this is not a normal circumstance. Upstairs is OK.
Normally, without the builder situation, I'd say my house is clean and tidy and the same as my friends' houses, but not as pristine and empty looking as a show home! I do throw out the old food! I do find it difficult to drink all the tea that I get given as presents!! It's hard to give it away. I find that the children jump to conclusions very quickly and have done so ever since I asked them to prepare the Power of Attorney in case I should need it in the future. It is not in place, but ready, in case I might need it. They changed when this was done and started to say critical things. A close friend, when I happened to let slip a comment one daughter made. was absolutely horrified and that made me realise their attitude to me was not very respectful.

I am disabled so I do need hobbies to fill the time that I used to spend going out walking the dog and so on. So I do a lot of craft, making things, sewing, knitting when I can, sometimes painting. The builder and the current house situation have interfered with this a bit and I have been reading when I can, because I do have to lie down as I get too much pain to try and keep working in the house.

The problem possibly may be that my "stuff" used to be in its place on shelves and in cupboards but the need to move the furniture and store things in the garage has completely changed how the house looks. However it is obvious that this is due to building work and the need for the house's problems to be mended, so I would expect them to be sympathetic, not critical. Especially with someone who lives with constant pain.

I think I just did too much for them when they were young. Even when their father committed suicide, I had to sell the house and move us and I tried not to let it affect them too much and covered up how their father treated me throughout the marriage. So I think they just got used to me being very capable and managing everything.

crazyH Oh! Bless you! I hope you found some even more beautiful vases.
I had to pack my things away for the builders to come and alter my house so I can use my wheelchair. I thought of taking some china to the Charity shop. Fortunately my disability prevented me! I took a look on eBay to see if it was worth trying to sell any of it and got a huge shock! Some the same was selling for £80-100 for a trio of cup saucer and side plate!! Also I saw a large vase of which I have two and which I'm not that keen on, for sale starting bidding at £45! I forgot to check whether it sold though. However, the tea things do sell and here is me just using them for a cup of tea! Well what are they for?
Good luck with your vases!! Do what makes you happy. I am honestly fed-up with "stuff", especially being disabled. I would chuck out just about every bit of my wardrobe for example! I decided to take all my Summer clothes that I'd washed and was putting away for next year, to the Charity shop! Mind you - they aren't good enough for them really!

Tillybelle, you are right. The children see you coping and they take it for granted that you are ok. Sorry to hear about the builder ..I hope you have started legal proceedings against him.
Life is so unfair.
I don't understand why the POA has affected your relationship with your children.
If it's any comfort to you, there are lots of us who are having ongoing difficulties with one or all of our children.
You sound very low...we go through these phases. Look after yourself and let us know how you!re doing

agnurse That was really well defined! Thanks. I am going to copy it (with your permission) and put it on my notice board. Hopefully my offspring will read it! And-thank Heavens! I do not have any heaps of magazines/newspapers! Unlike one of the Offspring.....

I found something on YouTube defining the difference between hoarding and ... oh, I can't remember, normal things I suppose. I made a note in my Little book: It is that we should discriminate between Mess and Clutter.
Mess is untidiness of things not in the right place because it is a] out being used b] waiting organisation.
Clutter is simply things that do not add value to your life!
She also made one rule: Do not decide for other people about their stuff, not even your partner - especially not your partner! You will hurt them. Be patient and supportive.
I made a note too which says the Principles of sorting and deciding what to throw away or keep are:
Love - do I love it?
Use - do I use it?
Space - Is there space for it?
Lifestyle - does it fit my life?
The lifestyle one applies to keeping things that really you know you aren't able to use now, I think, so to me it sounds a bit like "do I use it?"
I ought to give the lady who did the YouTube talk an acknowledgement but I'm afraid I've lost the reference. She was a cuddly warm-hearted American lady, wearing an attractive scarf. Not the thin woman who talks about "Large families on purpose" and whom I watched in fear for her regimented and identity-stripped poor children!

agnurse when you mentioned the 50 year old magazines, I thought of my late mil who had waist high stacks of newspapers around the large kitchen that had "interesting articles" she wanted to read and the old drying cupboard that was absolutely stuffed full of bits of cardboard from cereal boxes and old newspapers. Recipes were always written out on oddly shaped bits of cereal boxes. I still have some of them. Perhaps I too need to do some clearing out! Hmmm...

Tillybelle, it sounds as though there are a number of things that you need some assistance with. Issues such as dealing with the the "criminal builder" problems. Who is helping you to sort that out? Are there legal procedings happening or that need to get started? Where is Miss Marple when she's really needed? This is all very stressful and makes you feel very vulnerable. No wonder you are feeling down.

You also need some hands on help with getting shelves and cupboards installed and your things stored in them. In the short term is there one room you could get organised, made warm, pleasant and comfortable with your craft things handy? Maybe a bedroom if the sitting room is currently too compromised by the builders mess?

Instead of being critical your children could be a lot more proactive in helping you to deal with the present (hopefully temporary) problems. Could you have a conversation with your children and be very specific about what help you need and would like to receive? More lists and a strategy plan needed! How about a weekend working bee?

I know that when everything around me is chaotic and disorganised it really effects my mood and makes me feel depressed and chaotic inside as well. My external environment has a very big impact on my state of mind.
Good luck and GNs are here to help. ?

No, they wouldn't be so rude as to make such disparaging remarks.

As far as posting my message, go right ahead!

You're quite correct in that you can't really "clean out" anyone else's things, for the most part. (The exception being someone with dementia, if their belongings are creating a health hazard.) The problem with "forced clean-outs" for hoarders is that it does nothing to address the underlying problem that's causing the hoarding. All a forced clean-out does is increase the person's anxiety levels and give them room to hoard MORE things. You have to treat the underlying condition and THEN get THEM to start tackling the mess, often with the help of an organization expert.

It sounds, OP, as if your issue isn't hoarding at all. It's "mess" caused by the current state of your home. I agree that in this case you don't have a hoarding issue - you have a home issue.

Are these super-critical adult children as critical of their fathers/husbands /brothers and their collection of really valuable/important/I know it will come in useful junk in their garages and sheds?
Rusty tools, parts of defunct bicycles, cars, washing machines, pieces of wood, paint pots, cables, screws etc. etc. etc. I cleared my garage and shed, (twice), only for adult children to fill them with furniture and boxes of possessions in between flat and house moves. A year and a half later some have gone, but I am still battling to get them to remove the rest.

crazyH. Thank you, you are so kind. You have hit the spot. I have to acknowledge I am really low, your kindness has me in tears. It is so good to have loving support like yours. Thank you.

agnurse. You are right. Until the floors are done and the shelves and cupboards are up I can't put the furniture back. Neither can I put things away as there is nowhere to put them except in the storage boxes which I mostly keep in the garage. I've been eating from the picnic plates. The builder and his side-kick were stealing from these. The house is just a building site and has been going on for so long.

As for legal proceedings against the Builder. That is a long story, too long for here. Suffice it to say I was left by a bad Trading Standards Officer who was not doing his job and was clearly in league (taking "sweeteners") with the builders he had to investigate, to take the Builder to court myself. By then the builder had forced me into debt. I asked at CAB and the very experienced man there advised, while patting my hand, that the court would find in my favour, might make the builder come back (no way - he had threatened me when they cut a pipe and drained my central heating and broke the pump, which they should not even have touched). The CAB man said "The builder will declare bankruptcy and go out trading the next week under a different name. Don't throw good money after bad."
To see what he did go to YouTube:

youtu.be/tMSwsO6Q5d8
C&M Building are Finished! He said!

It's only a Power Point with Cowboy music (I hope people get the reference) and quite amateurish.
I made it soon after he said he had finished so some of the damage had not been discovered and the floors with the wet rot underneath had not been discovered either. The latter is due to my neighbours covering my air brick and putting soil above my damp course. Our West gable wall in this road is built up to the boundary and only accessed by going onto the neighbouring property. We never had trouble and look after each other until this couple - the woman actually - (see "He was pulling up my Pyracantha") - came here. She does psychopathic, anti social things (I am a retired Psychologist).

eazybee Ah. Difficult one here. Their father died, suicide over 20 years ago. They have forgotten how critical he was. They have, indeed, forgotten how difficult they were, especially when we had to move and I had to pack up everything and not always did they attempt to help. No, life has been too difficult, maybe it's best not to think about the past. Not for me, really.

Apricity You are absolutely right when you say: 'I know that when everything around me is chaotic and disorganised it really effects my mood and makes me feel depressed and chaotic inside as well". This has been affecting me badly. Unfortunately I am disabled and the old me, who used to get up and get busy, cannot move and lift things now. In fact right now I must lie down due to the pain getting excessive. So that runs my life and the sorting out of the builders' heinous evils hardly gets dealt with. I do not have money to pay anyone To do it.

Tillybelle, no wonder you are so depressed and overwhelmed. You are living in an impossible situation. I don't think I'd ever get out of bed and would just hide under the bedcovers all day. Is it possible to cut your losses and just sell your property, knowing and accepting that you have probably lost a lot of money on it? You cannot continue where you are as it will kill you. Would you have enough money to purchase something else, even a tiny place or a retirement cottage? Even one room with a kitchenette and bathroom would be better than the toxic environment you are living in. It almost seems cursed. I do so hope you can find some good people and some practical assistance to help you out of this slough of despond. ?

Tillybell email or write to your MP and request a home visit mention that you are disabled.

Then show him/her the problems caused by the cowboy builders.

Also have any relevant paper work and photographic evidence to hand.

Good luck[

Tillybelle are you OK? Have the responses posted here been helpful or have they just added to your stress? You seem so very vulnerable at the moment with a mountain of really difficult problems to deal with. I can only hope you are able to get support from someone (like your local MP) to deal with these issues or to direct you to people who can help. Best wishes from the other side of the world. ???