'B' has divided the country, but families too ...

Just read the sad post about one of us being so upset about family moving to NZ. And how I feel for her.

And it made me think of this context too. Previously, any parent whose family moved to the EU could come and go for visits as they pleased, and be covered for emergency health care too. And if at some stage they decided to move to be near them, that would be no issue. As EU citizens, they would have been able to do so, have pensions paid into that EU country and protected, join the health system and have their healthcare garanteed by the UK on a reciprocal agreement basis. Post Brexit and No Deal, that will be no longer possible. So those parents who show no empathy for the situation B throws their family in- are likely to be severely affected themselves at some point.

notana2- exactly- and pointing it out is not rude at all. Anyone who does not understand at all, or have any simpathy for - the tragic situations B puts them in- shows ignorance of the subject, and a total lack of empathy too.

I think its hard to reconcile how peoples extended families can care about them if they voted to have their family ripped apart though...

Which is the situation mixed nationality families are facing. How can they not be upset that people they thought cared about them voted to put them in that position?

It's a very sad thing if families become divided and fall out over these issues. I know some family members, and friends, too, voted differently to me, but it's a free country and they are entitled to their view. Whether I agree with those views or not is neither here nor there for me. I am certain, though, that I'm not going to let it come between us, as I love them too much.

you are showing massive ignorance of the real consequences of Brexit for some British expats living in EU- you really do.
No, I am not.

You are showing extreme rudeness, though, jura

No, these are not just people who would be squabbling anyway. Brexit isnt like voting for different main parties in a GA. Its PERSONAL because it will separate spouses and children, end careers etc. Its not an "agree to disagree" situation if your nearest and dearest express disregard or even contempt for you and your spouce, children, career and life plans

It brought opinions to the fore that wouldnt previously necessarily been expressed.

Its not petty bickering

Callistemon 'without any sympathy with the difficulties that will put their children and grandchildren in, and without any willingness to listen to them.
They sound like the type of families who would always be battling over anything and everything and stomping off on their high horses.'

you are showing massive ignorance of the real consequences of Brexit for some British expats living in EU- you really do. And even more for those who have spouses who are not British and may have to return to live in UK as they lose their permits in EU- and will have to prove they have an income of around 28000 to 33000 before they can bring their spouse to UK. The hardship and heartache is huge, and it will split families. If parents cannot sympathise for their children and grandchildren being caught in this kind of tragedy (and I don't use the word lightly) - then I am not surprised they are not keen on visiting them or being visited (especially as visits abroad or back to UK are for 1 week or more due to distance- quick Sunday lunch or coffee might be possible, and a quick exit if things get a bit heated- but week/s under the same roof, NO. My parents always visited for 2 to 3 weeks, and we were so close and got on so well- but even then, it was a bit much at times. Add Brexit and just NO.

The are also families where no one bothers to learn about politics, where they may not bother to vote or may not even bother to register. Yet they are all still inclined to complain and ask why "they" don't do something .

A close member of our family voted for Brexit , no problem there, everyone is entitled to their opinion & to vote as they chose.
It has however become apparent that they hold some unpleasant racist views which they use to support the way in which they voted.
We haven't "fallen out" out over this. Sadly however I have lost a significant amount of respect for them & would not choose to be in their company.

without any sympathy with the difficulties that will put their children and grandchildren in, and without any willingness to listen to them.
They sound like the type of families who would always be battling over anything and everything and stomping off on their high horses.

Sadly, I'm not surprised anymore when I hear of families fighting or breaking up over B. It has become a very emotional issue, as this thread has shown.

We have relatives all over the world, from very different backgrounds. And we are very very lucky as most are wonderful. And I have never fallen out with anyone ... I have just chosen to quietly drop anyone who has shown to be utterly racist.

The OP is not about me, it is a reaction to so many young people, Brits in the EU, who are in despair about their parents' Leave at all cost, No Deal, WTO ... without any sympathy with the difficulties that will put their children and grandchildren in, and without any willingness to listen to them. I get that, I really do.

Very true Callistemon
jura2 you sound to be very unlucky in some of your relatives, but it seems that fortunately most of us manage to rub along together without anyone falling out over politics/religion/race issues.

I would think that parents who lack empathy would not be very close to their children anyway, without Brexit being a factor.

I hear you and agree notanan....B is a divisive persistent issue, not helped by every minute of media cover focussing on it to the exclusion of everything else our country needs to get on with....

Oh no Labaik, according to this thread, if people take it personally when unpleasant/hateful/untrue comments are proudly made about people like them , it is their character flaw if they view people differently for making such comments.

Do people not see all of the pictures on facebook of people that have been beaten up because they speak with a foreign accent? Something that is happening more and more post Brexit? I suppose people will argue that it always happened but didn't get the publicity or that the people posting are liars. As for me, I've never before been afraid to wear a political t shirt or put a political poster up in my window or on my car before, but I am now.

Chewbacca, I wrote 'for those young people' - the ones in the OP.

The kind of families who can fight over Brexit are the kinds families always at each other's throats and taking offence at what other members say.

I had a friend in a family like that I could never work out who was talking to whom, who had fallen out with who and which aunt it was that was not allowed to attend my friend's mother's funeral.

racism, prejudice and total lack of empathy.?

If these unpleasant traits are being revealed in friends and family members jura, you need to delete them from your life; you've been very unlucky to have them near you. I'm fortunate that I've had no such experiences with my friends, family or colleagues, even though some voted Leave and some voted Remain.

Day6- for those young people in the OP, it is not really about the 'politics' per se- but the other stuff that spilled over from it all, including racism, prejudice and total lack of empathy.

And here Day6. I must be singularly lucky to have such open minded family, friends and colleagues who can disagree with each other politically without descending into bitter arguments, name calling and feuds.

Same here Day6 ??

I don't know of any families split by referendums or falling out because their politics are different from family members choices. Thank goodness I don't live in such a family group.

I am the polar opposite of one of my sons where politics is concerned but we agree to disagree and love each other dearly. No spats -often heated discussions, but never any falling out.

In my world it's only on GN that I am disliked for my political stance, unfortunately. The vitriol in GN discussion hasn't transferred over into any other sphere of my life fortunately, so perhaps the view that Brexit has caused hatred is blinkered and held only by those who form their views from the internet, don't have an 'off' switch or maybe lack a sense of proportion?

Thank goodness real life is nothing like the cut and thrust of internet opinion sites.

Just because we hold different opinions doesn't mean we should hate each other.

Personally, I would challenge 'friends' quietly but firmly. But it is different with family - too much at stake. So I/we will deflect, diffuse, avoid, walk away... but also with some, keep away too. That sadly means avoiding to visit or be visited for more than a day ...