elderly mother with narcissistic personality disorder

I've been thinking about your problem mother, Ziggy and remembered that I do know a few women with similar traits. They all seem to think they're right about the things they say.
The most obvious is the mother of DiL2 , who I've met about 3 times and that's enough. Talk about viper's tongue, dripping with poison, and some of it about her own daughter. Who is a lovely woman.
DiL hasn't cut contact though because she' s so fond of her Dad, the poor man.
This has opened my eyes, a very sad but interesting discussion. Glad you're still taking part Ziggy.

Fennel
thanks for your post

I know how DiL feels. I was very close to my Dad and even from a very young age thought he needed me to support him. although he always said he loved my mother, life was never easy. Anyway, sadly he died in 2012 and 14 months later I just couldn't take anymore. I was grieving for both my father & my first husband and trying to cope alone with my Mother's NPD was impossible, the rest of the family lived away and weren't even willing to make a phone call once a week. Of course now she's back living amongst these family members I am the wicked witch of the west.

As you say, it is very sad but I hope others trying to deal with the condition will join in so we can all support each other

Gonegirl
Ignored, as requested

I was gonna say, I think you misread the first post
But I wont lol

Have a nice day, it's beautiful here today, a day for reading in the garden

Hi Ladies, I am a retired psychologist and my experiences are almost identical to Missfoodlove's. I eventually diagnosed my own mum with NPD- after many years of CBT myself, I cottoned on.
Not a day I don't think about her emotional & physical violence. Was told by gp, psychologist +psychiatrist not to visit but afraid to stop. She's 91, living alone + still abuses me at every visit.

Crt67
So sorry to hear you're also dealing with a mother with NPD. I have to say I admire your courage for continuing to visit your mother. Although I know I have done the right thing to protect my own mental health I still feel very guilty.

Just before last Christmas I was having some contact via text messages. My husband even suggested having her here for a short visit. We exchanged Christmas cards and I began to think we could have some sort of relationship. She spent Christmas at a hotel with other single people of all ages and had a wonderful time. Then a few days into January she found a post on Facebook from when my Dad died in 2102 and criticised one of my cousins for not attending the funeral. My cousin called me very upset and I just thought "here we go again"

I just don't understand why she has to be causing so much trouble within the family.

Thanks again for your post. Hope you will continue to post xxx

Ziggy, thanks for explaining about how your mum tries to keep contact. I understand why you feel you can't talk about the issues regarding your AC and GC.

I'm sorry about the recent incident where your mum criticized your cousin on FB. However, IDKY your cousin called you. I think you need to let other relatives know not to bring their issues w/ your mum to you, as it just upsets you and does nothing to resolve things.

Crt67, I feel for you, as well. And I understand why you're afraid to stop visiting your mum. IMO, you are very brave. However, for your own mental health, perhaps you could see to it that a professional carer is hired? Then you wouldn't feel the need to go see her as often... Just a thought...

Movingon, it is defamatory to claim that I have a personality disorder. You must know that any psychiatric disorder carries a stigma.

I am in quite good mental health.

Movingon, it is defamatory to claim that I have a personality disorder. You must know that any psychiatric disorder carries a stigma

kindly quote (an exact quote and not your own interpretation of my words - for I'm not responsible over how you choose to perceive things) where I specifically claimed that you have a personality disorder? Not an insinuation but where I directly referenced you/mentioned your name and said that you Alexa had a personality disorder.

I am in quite good mental health"

And who said you weren't? What does any of this have to do with your original claim where you accused me of slandering a completely pseudonymous post?

Did you eventually figure out how to contact a moderator over my post that you wanted deleted? And that still hasnt been deleted? And that probably won't be deleted for those are quotes to your exact words? But now you want to twist the narrative and say I specifically claimed that you gave a personality disorder?

Again stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. If you still need help knowing how to contact a moderator very kindly let me know.

MovingOn, it's widely known that an accusation doesn't have to be explicit to be understood.

MovingOn, I did find out how to ask the mod. I did so. She judged that anyone may quote anyone else. She neglected or failed to read that my complaint was not the quotations which were of course quite in order, but your veiled allusion to the person you quoted.

When the mod replies the poster is asked to comment on the mod's verdict, and I told how she had missed the point.

As you say it's not a big deal, and I have never dome this before although I participate in much more insultingly worded forums than this, and I am a moderator of one of them. Participants are accusomed to Gransnet does not go in for insults so it was in the context of Gransnet posts that I objected.

Thank you for your empathy and, Ziggy62 and Starlady. I'll post again when I'm ready.

This thread makes me think I've strayed onto Mumsnet.

MovingOn, it's widely known that an accusation doesn't have to be explicit to be understood

Widely known by who? That's a personal exaggeration, a deviation and a poor deflection from the original point - which was for you to point out exactly (verbatim and not your perception of things) where I mentioned that you Alexa - had a personality disorder. You should have just done that, via a very simple copy paste, instead of further insisting on this falsified claim. I just wanted to see how you came to that conclusion. And quite honestly we've gone back and forth enough for you to obviously realize that nothing of the sort was even said since you can't even point that out on here, but you still insist on arguing which shows me that you either don't like being told your wrong, or just love to argue and control the outcome of conversations when things don't go your way. Again, where did I say that you had a personality disorder Alexa! Playing the victim card doesn't suffice.

MovingOn, I did find out how to ask the mod. I did so. She judged that anyone may quote anyone else. She neglected or failed to read that my complaint was not the quotations which were of course quite in order, but your veiled allusion to the person you quoted

And how do you know that she neglected or failed to read your complaint? You're doing it again, only is time its to the moderator and not me the poster. So its everyone else's fault but yours right? You who falsely accused another poster of claiming that you had a personality disorder? Maybe you should hold yourself accountable for your own words? You do realise that we are going back and forth over words that did come out of your very own mouth, but now that you probably see that your words have been perceived differently, you're viciously trying to control, and manipulate the manner in which the readers internalize and interpret them right?

As you say it's not a big deal, and I have never dome this before although I participate in much more insultingly worded forums than this

Stop insisting that you were insulted when you weren't. Start making yourself accountable, and responsible for the words that come out of your mouth - for once they are out, the world is free to interpret, ignore, judge, perceive or analyze in any way, shape and form that their minds see fit. One just can't type an entire post and expect others not to had an individualized opinion that's different from theirs? And then try and manipulate the situation by victimizing themselves, putting false words in other posters mouths, twisting the entire narrative to make it look like they were insulted, then contact a moderator with the intent of controlling the outcome of the conversation. This is not how the world works. You can't control anyone else but yourself. Remember that always.

He a nice weekend!

Crt67, looking forward to hearing from you again, you will always be welcome xx

MovingOn2018
thanks for your posts. I have to smile at the some of the posts on here (2 people in particular spring to mind) who INSIST on having the last word!!. It actually reminds me so much of my mother. Her angry texts, facebook messages always end with "I'm glad I've got that off my chest".

I've learned to ignore her rants and am doing the same with the 2 on here.

Thanks for all your support and you certainly have a way with words xxx

These terms are bandied about too readily these days but also not every old lady is a 'sweet old lady'. My own grandmother (yes i am a granny and still have a granny - the women in my family just don't check out) could fit this bill. My brother and sister and I were sent to live with her through the week when we were very young because she convinced my mum the job she was doing wasn't good enough. Re-training meant not being able to look after 3 kids. It ruined my parent's marriage and meant - frankly - a horrendous childhood for a lot of the time for the three of us. The way she treated my aunt (her second daughter) was a lesson in parental cruelty. Even at my aunt's funeral last year my gran was more interested in her appearance than grieving for her daughter... You can put any label on that you like but the best advice is to give these people a wide berth.

MawBroonsback "NPD seems to be flavour of the month even when people are cutting off their own noses to spite their faces."

Yes, NPD is very on trend currently.

Ziggy62 - I too had a mother with NPD traits so I know what you mean about going NC and protecting your mental health. It seems that some people object to this term being used which is why I have said "NPD traits".

Movingon2018 - your experiences sound so familiar to me!!

My mother wanted a boy when pregnant with me so I was a huge disappointment from Day 1.

I was constantly told as a child that there was something wrong with me, that no-one would like me, that I was peculiar because I didn't eat green vegetables and various other ridiculous things. After puberty she moaned every time I had a spot on my face and castigated me for not wearing padded bras and for not having enough boyfriends.

My self-esteem was rock bottom for years.

After my older DS was born he had evening colic and cried after feeds but she claimed I was starving him by breast-feeding because my breasts weren't large enough to store all the milk he needed. We had to go to hospital and have him test-weighted before and after feeds and she was proved wrong.

I never sent her Mothers Day cards as I thought it would be hypocritical and every year I got a phone call complaining about it!!!

Ziggy62 and those who have suffered as I did - it's very sad when one's own mother is hostile to you all your life and I wish you all well.

@Ziggy62, went nc with my dm a decade ago. my other DCs gave up and went nc years before I did. When folk ask how do they keep in touch. Well we moved, went ex directory, she found us through a friend who worked at the hospital, how kind of them to pass on my details. With sky we have a blocking facility, does not stop her writing but OH grabs the post sees her handwriting, opens it, sighs and bins it.

Ziggy and others, I know that the hurt and damage done by narcissistic mothers is enormous and can scar your whole life. I hope you disregard the cynical posts and ķnow that many of us empathise with what you have gone, and are going, through.

NPD I had never heard of it but when I read the posts of those who say their relatives have it, I realised it was what we used to consider being mentally ill, which I know is very difficult to deal with, especially long term. It's not like any other illness as mood changes make it so hard.
Ziggy, I do not understand why none of your children or grandchildren won't speak to you, surely you can't of upset all of them. its good test in her 80's she's on Facebook,mine one go on it.

Whether the narcissist label gets bandied about too much or not OP's mum clearly has traits and is clearly upsetting OP through her behaviour. No one should have to put up with less than respect and decency from another human being and if their treatment of you is having a detriment effect then cut them off regardless of who they are!

I'm almost at that point with my teenage daughter with no formal diagnosis of anything but none of us are here to be treated like crap!

I have not long joined this site and actually wanted to post for advice on my own situation. I thought I'd came across a more understanding site than others I've came across in the past but the disgusting bile coming from some of you has made me realise why I won't ever post anything. Even if you have a differing opinion on something there is a way of putting your points across.

OP I am glad some have offered advice and I hope you take comfort from those and get some decent outcome to your issues.

I can understand Ziggy. We had the best mum and dad this world could ever hold. Sadly my mum had a mum who's wicked tongue and actions were so cruel that she suffered with depression and anxiety through her adult life. My mums sister was very quiet and was the main victim of the verbal and physical abuse. My mum used to protect her sister and answer back and that didn't go down too well. This was when they were growing up and living at home. Nan had her favourites and these two sisters were not. The story is too long to tell but mum got married and left home, leaving sister living at home after which she lost weight, she was found sleeping in Aunties outside toilet at night because she didn't want to go home. She slept with my mum and dad the night before she took her own life. An overdose of tablets in the year 1942. Would you believe before nan died aged 90 in 1984 she had said to mums brother that she wanted to be buried with R***. My mums reply was 'over my dead body!' Mental cruelty can never be forgotten or forgiven. My mum never got over it and she would unload her family life time and time again to me from the time I got married and visited every week until she developed dementia.
Ziggy I understand why you cut your mum out of your life. You need some peace and no one deserves to be treated in that way especially from someone who is supposed to love you. I think you said you feel guilty for doing that which just goes to prove that you have a heart but sadly your mother doesn't.
On the subject of your mum telling lies about you to all and sundry. You know what, it doesn't matter who believes her or who doesn't, YOU know that truth and that's all that matters. There's no need to defend yourself to anyone.
You will never change your mum even if she lives to be 100 but if you want just to visit her now and again for half an hour do so. Let her words rise above you. Accept her for what she is and when she leaves this world at least you can say at least you did the right thing, she didn't and they'll be nothing to feel guilty about. Be strong. Don't let her get you down any more. If she were to speak to me untoward, I'd just say 'yes mother if you say so' You can't win with those kind of people so don't even try. Go to church with her and go straight home after the service. Call in on the way to shopping. It doesn't have to be long visits does it. Good luck. I'd just like to leave a quote that I saw a long time ago on facebook which I have always loved
'Don't judge me until you've walked in my shoes'

My therapist suggested my mother as NPD by my sepific issues. She would not come to therapy with me although I wanted to go to fix our relationship not get her a diagnosis. Sadly she has told too many lies to back down now. I really think you should se a therapist OP. For the sake of your children and grandchildren. Sometimes we pick up our mothers behaviours or can be emotionally distant because of our own childhoods. I really hope you find a way through this.

I am under the impression that they with a NPD can only help themselves if they can see it. Those around them can only be in control of their own feelings from the impact of this. My brother shows signs but undiagnosed and a past employer who works in this field said there is absolutely nothing you can do but protect yourself from their actions. They love to argue and convince themselves they are never wrong, you are everytime.