My son is an abuser

So sorry to hear of your very difficult position. Best wishes

I want to add how well you have responded to this shock and distress.
I have nothing to add to the very good advice others have already posted.

Of course you are in shock. Take care of yourself while you are taking care of the DiL and baby. You are doing the right thing. It is so good that you can and did take them in.
I hope you can get help for her and also for you to untangle the situation with your DS later on.

BlueBelle I am so sorry you have lived through domestic abuse. It is all too prevalent. I do know that "excuses" are often made which imply "blame" on both sides. My intention was certainly not to belittle anyones own experience. I am deeply sorry if that is how my comments sound.

Just be aware that involving the police could end up with your son behind bars as domestic violence is taken very seriously these days (as it should be). Your son needs anger management and before your Dil even thinks about reconciliation she should demand he undertakes an anger management course and goes for counselling. Being nice and considerate to others isn't necessarily a front as there are usually triggers and she knows exactly what buttons to press to set him off. He may very well love her very much but clearly can't control his temper. It's good that you've taken her in but now insist he gets help or you'll involve the police. Better he gets help voluntarily rather than being locked up.

@libbyR now that you know about the situation & they know that you know, alas you cannot expect things to change for the better any time soon. You may find that your son & his partner stubbornly repeat & revisit flash points in their relationship & somehow seem to refuse to deal with the reality of their situation. I have already said that the abuse cannot be glossed over or excused, but please do not demonise your son - partly because the dynamic between them is way beyond bad boy:nice girl & also this is placing yourself in their dramatic dynamic as some form of moral authority (more than the moral authority that a mother has).

I am not a pessimist by nature but have become seasoned by time. It was intensely frustrating to support my niece ( & her father) through the dark times for her & her abuser to actively seek each other out because of ‘lurve’. After a few repeat cycles, I got the neutral indifference of the DV professionals we’d met along the way.

What has been done with the baby in arms & more is totally unacceptable. Poor mite. As Gma you are a source of safe warm consistent drama-free love. Baby needs you, so keep hugging.

For your own wellbeing, I strongly urge you to use WA for advice about local services so that your D-not in-Law & baby are rehoused & supported by people who have the experience, training & professional distance to support all parties concerned. However protective you may feel, this is not your drama nor are you obliged to offer anything to offset any guilt or shame you may feel about your son’s actions.

So far, you have just some of the information about a complex situation between two adults. Apply judicious care & thought to your actions - meaning do not get drawn in.

GrannySquare of course relationships are complex but LibbyR says her son has behaved like this towards his current partner and it would appear in previous relationships.

This is one dangerous man ! I know it's your son but I couldn't allow this physical abuse to happen without reporting it.He will keep on doing it knowing he's getting away with it and there could come a time when he goes too far.

It's a form of control as the victim always blames herself for the battering she gets. I wouldn't hesitate to do something about it whether he loses everything or not this has to stop. It will affect the child seeing mum black and blue and then there'll be another problem to deal with.

You are to be admired for keeping a clear head and doing the right thing, Libby. Very sad situation.
As well as the good advice above, you mention that he's on antidepressants, which must be relevant. Sounds as if he needs more psychiatric investigation. Do you have contact with a male relative who could befriend him and persuade him to go back to his GP?
I can imagine you're torn, as he's still your son.

No need to apologise notspagetti I didn’t take your comments to heart I just didn’t want you to think I was talking out my backside I am strong because of it and spent 10 years afterwards working with survivors it was a useful and wonderful ten years when people are believed and grow in confidence so I have heard hundreds of stories
I personally loved him for many years after we eventually parted for good and do you know what I know he loved me too he just didn’t have the control and ability to deal with all of life
We weren’t the right people to be together
The daughter in law is safe for now with her mum in law hopefully if they both get some professional help individually life will be easier for them both in the future

Granny Square you refer to "the neutral indifference of the DV professionals we met along the way" as something you began to get after a few cycles of separation-reconciliation between a young family member and her abusive partner.

I can genuinely say I haven't worked with any professionals involved with domestic abuse who operated with neutral 'indifference'. Understanding, acceptance that there could be numerous attempts at separation before the abused partner finally made it out and stayed out. That wasn't indifference. Just a calm approach to difficult work. The same thing can happen with family members, learning just how hard it is for people to leave. It may be because of what you call "lurve". More likely its about keeping the family together for the children. Not wise and sensible I know but a real motivator.

I admire you for siding with your son's partner and not your son. Not everyone would do that.

I am very sorry for you.

Unless the situation is compounded by drug and/or alcohol use, the fact she has left him numerous times actually means she is almost certainly getting stronger

What a load of crap

MovingOn2018 - no, I disagree, it is not crap - Iam64 says the last evidence I saw suggested 24 attempts to separate before it actually happens - and although it’s some years since I read papers on it, I know that it generally takes many attempts to leave before the abused partner can leave for good.

I say this through my own experience of supporting people in refuge and outreach. I haven’t just “made it up”. Slowly but surely, many many people build up their will and capacity to leave, they get braver, gain understanding, and thank goodness, many do get out once and for all.

I am not saying that no-one can leave 1st attempt, but please don’t take going back as a failure. it’s oftrn, part of a painful “leaving journey”.

Absolutely right notsoagetti it usually takes many attempts for many many reasons to actually leave Its a very complex situation and nothing is cut and dried
I just want people to hear the piece where libby said they are both hot headed and volatile This does not excuse Libby’s sons behaviour one jot, but it may explain some of it especially if the son already suffers mental health problems

I hope they can both get help ....separately
I think you’re a brave lady Libby and I truly hope this can improve for everyone involved

Unless the situation is compounded by drug and/or alcohol use, the fact she has left him numerous times actually means she is almost certainly getting stronger

You can disagree all you want but this statement you made is still nothing but crap - was my original point that I choose to stand by. You don't even know her at all. All you know is what OP has told you. And as such, you cant use your experience of "supporting people" to draw such biased conclusions.

How do you know she's actually getting stronger? Ever heard of trauma bonding?

How very difficult for you OP. We all want to be proud of our offspring and I can only begin to imagine your feelings. These DV situations are always challenging to resolve; but you have done well to ensure the safety of your grandchild and his mother.

Thank you for the kind words and the links. We are working through this one day at a time. All is quiet at the moment and we are considering what to do next however the baby has settled and his mummy is beginning to relax. I’m really wanting to find a way through this without involving the police and social services, unlikely I know but I don’t want the police and she doesn’t want social services. By supporting her I feel I will almost certainly lose my son but his behaviour has flicked a switch in me that has accepted that. My grandson’s well-being is my priority and my son is old enough to be the author of his own life. I hold my little grandson and he is the image of his daddy at that age and I wonder how did we get to this.

She absolutely cannot go back and with support this time I’m certain she won’t. Her family have had a lot of involvement with social services and sadly she grew up in a very volatile environment and she doesn’t want that for her baby. In contrast our family, although fractured by my partner and I separating when my son was a baby, have led a quiet, sheltered life. I don’t think I’ve ever actually spoken to a policeman whereas her family are very well known to them. Some of her siblings have had their children taken into care however she has never given me any reason to think that she’s not a good mum. She’s always had a job until her maternity leave and has plans to go back soon. She kept their house clean and tidy and seems to really want a different life for my grandson to the one she had a a child. My grandson is spotlessly clean, she plays with him and talks to him all the time. He’s happy and smiley, eats everything he’s given and is thriving..

I don’t have the headspace to challenge my son about this as I have a big work event in a week and then once that’s over we will need to start making plans as quite rightly she doesn’t wish to live here any longer than necessary although she has two bedrooms and a bathroom to herself and her own living space if she wants it and I’m at work all day. She is finding it hard on her own all day in someone else’s house but I’ve been taking over when I get home and giving my gs his bath and having some quality time with him before bedtime and I think she’s appreciated having a few hours to herself to have a soak in the bath or go and do a bit of shopping. She has a eating disorder so finds it difficult to eat with us so I take the baby off while she has a bite to eat alone.

Someone asked - I do have a husband but he’s very straightforward and I tend to keep the majority of the details to myself. We’re not close. He doesn’t ask, he knows they’ve had a row and she’s come to stay but that’s all at present. I will have to give him more detail when it gets difficult which it will I’m sure when we ask for the rest of her things from the house. Technically it’s my house and I’d like her to live there with my grandson but he won’t allow it and has said he’ll smash the place up rather than let her and their son live there so at some point I have the unenviable task of evicting him. If he causes damage then my husband will have him arrested and he will lose everything.

@Iam64 I see your point. So I’ll the term ‘neutral distance’ - professional, non-judgemental, dispassionate.

It was an eye opener for both of us who have not witnessed or directly known of such protracted abuse, yet our niece would return to him. Hard to see a young woman who we’ve known from the day she was born subject herself to such bad treatment & hurt. The DV professionals were remarkable & we leaned upon them as we came to accept that our best efforts to help wore us out & just seemed to facilitate the disfunction. Hence my comments @LibbyR about not getting too involved for too long. This is your home & your sanctuary, & you have to keep your own boundaries very strong as the situation can become volatile.

Thanks for commenting again GrannySquare. It's a truly challenging area, for workers as well as for loved one's. I agree with you about keeping boundaries strong.

LibbyR, the information about your grandsons mother's background clarifies her reluctance to approach children's services. I hope things continue to go as smoothly as they can. Don't hesitate to contact children's services if she does return

I don't believe the only option is to return...ever! There are women`s aid hostels and victim support bodies. You haven't said about her staying long term with you..is this an option?.
Your son deserves a prison sentence, but only if his girl fronts it out. The abuse will not go away.

It`s awful all round...but should not be allowed to continue.

I strongly urge closing down the option of ‘staying long-term’. This will not solve the problem or make your grandchild’s life sustainably safer or better.

Engaging with the local WA & DV support is essential because there are well established protocols, guidelines & legal obligations on the support agencies & local services to support the abused, abuser (indeed so) & vulnerable children. Dodging or ducking police attention if required is a grave mistake.

To be completely blunt & forthright @LibbyR, as much as you are kind, fair, reasonable & well-meaning, you are the alleged abuser’s mother which muddies the waters in many ways. The young mother’s background that you have described suggests that she is vulnerable - dare I generalise widely to say, possibly very insecure & unconsciously manipulative- & by no means excusing your son’s actions or blaming the victim, this is their relationship & not your responsibility. The coming days could see them reconcile & then your kindness will belong to a period of time they may choose to overlook, for you to be yourself pushed away & kept from your grandchild. Do I speak from experience? ‘fraid so.

Oh, & I have to ask, what is your son’s account?
Has he incurred abuse or injuries?

You need to keep yourself well, boundaries strong, & neutral in approach.
Getting WA & DV support agencies engaged is urgent & important.

I have to ask @LibbyR about your comments.

It seems from what you have said that you have not discussed this situation with your son—‘headspace to challenge my son about this as I have a big work event in a week’ - nor are you pushed to find out how your son is, particularly as you say he has MH issues. Have I missed something ?

‘By supporting her I feel I will almost certainly lose my son’ why is the choice so stark & so absolute based on the account of one person, no victim blaming but you do not seem to have both sides or an independent account.
‘but his behaviour has flicked a switch in me that has accepted that.’
Again, an account of his behaviour which is not favourable to him, so why such a quick flick switch ? We know that it often takes victims of abuse time & repeated cycles to accept the reality of the situation. You seem to resolve this conundrum very quickly.
So my question is, has abuse & DV been a part of your life, & therefore your son’s life, in the past ?

‘My grandson’s well-being is my priority and my son is old enough to be the author of his own life. I hold my little grandson and he is the image of his daddy at that age and I wonder how did we get to this.’
Is your son ‘the image of his daddy’?
Was abuse & DV an aspect of the fractured relationship with your previous partner / his father ?
I have the sense that your son’s partner has provided you with something that pokes your unconscious feelings that your son may take after his father &/or your previous partner.

My comments based on experience ? ‘fraid so.

For the sake of your grandchild, if not yourself, you need to move mother & baby on to the local support services. That you seem to be avoiding engaging fairly & squarely with your son, & have downplayed or dodged being honest about the situation with your partner - after all, this is not a tiff - suggests to me that this is much more complex for you than you may realise.

Of course, I could be wildly off piste.
Please excuse me if so.

Sometimes, good advice, given with the best of intentions, can undermine those involved and sadly, alienate them from appropriate services.

It can also result in the individuals at the heart of the awful life events, feeling judged and criticised.

Domestic abuse is complex. There is no quick fix and no one approach will suit every situation.

I have personal experience from the experience of loved one's, people in our friendship circle (luckily not myself so far as physical abuse is concerned). I have far too many years professional experience - the Freedom Project is good. Bernardos and the NSPCC can offer support though, the NSPCC ' and other agencies will refer to Children's Services, both because its protocol and also because Children's Services are the agency with statutory responsibility for DA. The same goes for the police, any involvement with DA = referral to the l.a. social work team. The response there, unless injuries or significant risk to children from physical involvement/lt emotional abuse, is usually to write to the victim offering support.
The OP 's son needs to take responsibility for his behaviour - get help via his GP, the NSPCC or other agency.

What an absolutely appalling shock this must have been for you.

I'm not sure you can help you son right now, as he unfortunately probably feels you are "siding with his wife against him".

Your priority right now is your grandchild and his mother, who like many abused women finds it almost impossible to leave her husband.

Sadly, the only sensible thing is for her to accept that however kind and nice he can be, he and she are a couple who cannot apparently resolve their difficulties without resorting to abuse.

Please continue to help her right now. When your shock has receded a little you may be able to help your son as well, but right now I think you would find it too hard to talk to him about all this and might unintentionally make things worse.

What an awful situation for you. Hard is it is I think you need to offer support to both your dil and son. Something has gone wrong somewhere. Both of them need intervention for different reasons. Both need to be put in touch with proper help. Unfortunately that may mean persuading the dil to contact the police. The police and courts will be able to arrange perpetrator courses (I believe they are called something else now) as well as courses and support for dil. There is also the danger that if he is not ready to see his abusive behaviour, losing you to (her side) may cause a huge backlash from him.

Abusive people aren't all lost, especially when mental health is a factor. This behaviour can be corrected. I have seen it work. Don't give up on him yet.