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(51 Posts)
Bbarb Tue 25-Feb-20 12:47:44

I've been thinking back, 30 years .....
I took a course on what was then called 'Nursery Nursing' which was really a course on child development, and failed one assignment because I disagreed with the tutor.
The discussion had been about meals, nutrition etc and I had written something along the lines of the difficulties of teaching children to use a knife and fork and had added of course please and thank you are mandatory''.
I was held up for ridicule before the whole class.
He insisted please and thankyou were unnecessary words to which I replied that if someone asked me to pass the milk I would naturally say 'thank you' when I got it.
He insisted there was no point as I'd got what I wanted.
If we're not supposed to teach manners to our children, it explains why youngsters barge ahead of elderlies in queues, take the last bus seat, don't hold doors open etc etc.
What's happening?

ps - honestly I was marked 'failed' my dissertation on that subject.

Alexa Tue 25-Feb-20 13:12:31

I used to teach nursery nurses and I agree with you Bbarb. There is a difference between training young children and educating them. Please and thank you usage is an example of training to fit in with the sort of society the kids are expected to be at home in. The words and even the sentiment don't matter except inasmuch as they are conventions. However it's a snobbish world and kids need to be equipped to deal with it.

Long before children have developed their moral sense they need to be trained to behave nicely to others. The training should of course be light hearted and presented as play.

Gemini17892 Tue 25-Feb-20 13:17:13

That’s incredible that he should think that way.
I love good manners and have always said the words we expect from our tiny grandchildren like ‘ Thank you Grandma ‘ when you give them something. And ‘ Ask me nicely ‘ when they want something. We have done this since they could speak and now they are learning to say it without prompting.

Bbarb Tue 25-Feb-20 13:36:58

I suppose manners have disappeared down the same hole as 'thank you letters'.

maddyone Tue 25-Feb-20 13:46:09

Barb, your tutor clearly had no manners whatsoever, he didn’t agree with basic good manners and he had the rudeness to humiliate you in front of the whole class. In my opinion, he wasn’t fit to be a tutor.

Alexa Tue 25-Feb-20 13:54:46

I so agree with you Maddyone!

Luckygirl Tue 25-Feb-20 13:56:04

My GC know that is they want something from Grandma they have to say please!

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 14:04:37

I was talking to a Swedish friend this weekend - he said they don’t have a word for please, only thank you. However, he said you would ask for something politely as in ‘Would you mind passing me the milk’ and not just say ‘Pass the milk’

Calendargirl Tue 25-Feb-20 14:26:20

I was always brought up to use please and thank you, probably when it sometimes wasn’t required, and did the same with my own children. When DS went to play with a friend, he was about 4 years old, the mum commented on his lovely manners. I don’t think his own children are as well mannered, but compared to many, they are pretty good. Always ask to leave the table still at 14 and 12, well at our house anyway.

Alexa Tue 25-Feb-20 14:33:32

Suziewoozie, with regard to your Swedish friend's experience it's very good to train the young child in the locally correct form of words whatever that may be.

Any training will fall on stony ground unless the method is play and lighthearted.

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 14:45:36

I’m not disagreeing at all with that Alexa I just thought it was interesting not to have a word for please, that’s all.

Ilovecheese Tue 25-Feb-20 14:48:23

In my opinion, learning good manners by rote is a different thing than consideration for others.
Please and thank you just parroted out is not an indication of kindness or good character.

GagaJo Tue 25-Feb-20 14:53:03

My grandson isn't two yet and knows how to say please and thank you. Manners are important. They affect how others perceive you, whether you are well mannered or not.

Students that thank me as they leave my lesson make a good impression. It may be reflex, but it doesn't matter. It shows they appreciate someone else's effort.

Good manners are also politeness strategies. They're part of the socialisation process of a child. The child/adult with poor manners is not well received in society. By not teaching manners, you're disadvantaging your child .

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 14:54:40

I always loved it when I was working in Manchester and people thanked the bus driver when getting off

Ilovecheese Tue 25-Feb-20 14:57:46

Susiewoozie I didn't realise that only happened here in Manchester! I thought everybody did it.

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 15:11:04

When I’d come back from a stay in Manchester, I used to do all sorts of things that took people aback. Thanking the bus driver, talking to people in the lift ....😀

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 15:12:09

I soon went back to normal grumpy taciturn Southerner 😀

DoraMarr Tue 25-Feb-20 15:18:47

Everyone says “thank you” to the bus driver in Birmingham. I think most people are polite, there have always been a few who are not.

May7 Tue 25-Feb-20 15:20:53

We say thank you to bus drivers here in Liverpool too👍

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 15:24:08

Maybe it’s just here that’s impolite

Suki70 Tue 25-Feb-20 15:31:54

Everyone in the South London borough where I live thanks bus drivers too.

suziewoozie Tue 25-Feb-20 15:32:57

Oh dear - Surrey then

Pantglas2 Tue 25-Feb-20 15:42:21

I wonder whether thanking the bus driver is a generational thing? I do it but don’t often see youngsters doing it - possibly because lots of them have their ear plugs in listening to whatever and they’re in their own little world?

Another thing I do in a restaurant is push my chair back in as I leave the table but I’ve noticed I’m the only one on so many occasions. If everyone did it there’d be more room to move around.

AGAA4 Tue 25-Feb-20 15:53:34

Bus drivers are thanked in north Wales too. I do despair of some of the rudeness I see and it's not just young people. My grandchildren are polite and always when asked in a restaurant what they would like say "may I please have" instead of "can I get"which many older people seem to do.

GagaJo Tue 25-Feb-20 15:58:29

In Switzerland people thank the bus driver. Maybe it's universal.