Where have all the dads gone?

It isn't just about money. Fathers who are emotionally unavailable to their children are just as damaging too.

An example: my own niece has five children with the aim of obtaining healthy benefits. She is on good terms with her partner and they arranged that he does not live with her or marry so it continued. He has a full time job and I am amazed at all the designer baby clothes etc expended.
When I mentioned to my brother in my naivety before
I understood the arrangement, how lovely it was to have a large family, his reply was “Ha ha ha”.
Be assured this is the case for many in my nearest city.
This has nothing to do with abandoned mothers, widows etc for whom I have the utmost sympathy.

You’re right JaneJudge. It’s my opinion that children need two parents wherever possible. Many of the children I taught had absolutely nothing to do with their fathers. Occasionally I had a child who lived with dad and there was no sign of mum.

GagaJo

*Many of these baby daddies are long term boyfriends who visit each weekend and leave cash on the table when they leave, of course this suits the single mum nicely.*

Really? Do you know one of these?

This is the ridiculous sort of urban myth that is created as an excuse to hate the poor.

Oh yes, boyfriends are expected to contribute to “companionship” and living expenses.

PS The CSA is joke if parent does not want to pay it’s easy to wriggle out of it.

One thing not mentioned here is that there will be many fathers who do pay but, if they are out of work or on low pay and claiming Universal Credit, CMS will calculate they should pay £7 per week. This will not go far to help raise a child but these men will not have any extra to give.

trisher

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Good post.

I think the refusal to contribute financially is fairly dreadful, but what I find worse is their attitude to their own children.
My daughters older girl seems pretty resilient, and expects nothing.
But in these days of social media, she can see his latest partner posting every day, about what they’ve all been doing, what a wonderful perfect little family they are.
I doubt it will last to be honest, but whilst it does, it’s really rubbing her nose in it.

Poor love. Sara54 no wonder your heart goes out to your granddaughter.

hollysteers

An example: my own niece has five children with the aim of obtaining healthy benefits. She is on good terms with her partner and they arranged that he does not live with her or marry so it continued. He has a full time job and I am amazed at all the designer baby clothes etc expended.
When I mentioned to my brother in my naivety before
I understood the arrangement, how lovely it was to have a large family, his reply was “Ha ha ha”.
Be assured this is the case for many in my nearest city.
This has nothing to do with abandoned mothers, widows etc for whom I have the utmost sympathy.

I hope the doubters are reading this hollysteers.
I’m sure they think I make things up.

Thanks for your acknowledgement urmstongran.
So many heartbreaking stories on here. Can the dads who just walk away truly not see the damage they do?
I'm wishing for a Ken Loach type searing look into this.

Yesterday the plumber who came to my house was so hungover he broke the sink. Does this prove that plumbers as a group are utterly feckless. I dont really understand the benefits for large families comment. Child benefit stops at two doesnt it?

Here's an example that I haven't made up.
My daughters dad, who I was engaged to, and with for 6 years paid £5 for the whole of her life.
He wasn't a real pig; he was a young man who realised the system wasn't going to make him pay up. (Mummy and daddy had a say in it too, of course)

So, she lived, she suffered, she died, and he paid £5.

So, all these dads are here, there, and everywhere.

In lots of your own families, no doubt, because for every child born there are TWO parents.

Incidentally, those single mums whose parents regularly help them out with money- I hope they let the dwp know.

Also, incidentally, unless there is a medical reason, single parents are expected to work these days.

They simply won't be given benefits to sit on their bums and do nothing except everything that raising a child entails.

trisher

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Of course there are many different reasons for the preponderance of single mothers, but the main reason is society’s acceptance of it.
No one wants to go back to the bad old days of back street abortions and shame, but it is natural to castigate someone when we find ourselves in this mess of father free children.
Wouldn’t it be better for the parties concerned to take some responsibility for their actions?

MissAdventure
That’s so sad and so horrible.
My heart breaks for all these abandoned children.
In the case of my own granddaughter, she has also seen the gradual withdrawal of her other grandparents, who she was very close to when she was younger.
I think they are ashamed and embarrassed by their son, and find it hard to keep coming up with excuses, although, God knows his mother tries!
My daughter frequently suggests they meet up, but they seem reluctant.

How many on here have grown up children who are on their second (or more) "dp"?

It’s not just about the 2-child benefit though Galaxy

www.singleparents.org.uk/information/benefits/financial-support-for-single-parents

The government (taxpayers) pay out as if you get income support, you can get free prescriptions, dental treatment, sight tests, glasses, fares to hospital etc.

If you're a single parent or on a low income, you may be able to claim to other benefits, such as income support, income-based jobseeker's allowance (JSA), or housing benefit. If you're on a low income and receive certain benefits, you may also be able to get a council tax reduction.

Yes, it's easier to just sweep the past and everyone in it under the carpet, Sara1954

That's what happened to me, history was conveniently rewritten, I became a "one night stand" and that was that.

hollysteers

trisher

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Of course there are many different reasons for the preponderance of single mothers, but the main reason is society’s acceptance of it.
No one wants to go back to the bad old days of back street abortions and shame, but it is natural to castigate someone when we find ourselves in this mess of father free children.
Wouldn’t it be better for the parties concerned to take some responsibility for their actions?

So how exactly will you judge that? If a father is thrown out by the mother who makes it difficult for him to see his children will he still be expected to contribute. If the mother has a new boyfriend who doesn't live with her but is contributing financially would that make a difference?
If the father didn't want a child in the first place and was told the girl was using contraception is it still his responsibility?
It doesn't help the child to try to blame anyone, whereas providing proper financial support does.

Thanks Trisher for a balanced post. This thread had done a lot of dad bashing - and justifiably so in many cases. But there is another side to the story and many dads are conscientious and caring. My DS was very upset by the attitude that he must be at fault - i.e. that he had walked out - when his ex decided she didn't want him.

Those benefits are the same across the board.
They arent particular to single parents.

Yes having a large family wouldnt influence those benefits.

Let’s face it Urmstongran many people (and I know of them) know how to work the system, as do politicians and business people.
My niece made sure she produced five children before 2017?

If the father didn't want a child in the first place and was told the girl was using contraception is it still his responsibility?

? A condom would ensure he was in the driving seat so to speak. Affordable & in control springs to mind.

So true hollysteers. You have hit the nail on the head.

Thank you for your comments and thoughts. Urmstongran, I have no doubt whatsoever that your DH heard that conversation in Eccles. I sometimes work there and can well believe it!
Gagajo obviously immediately jumped on the usual "blame all the billionaires in government " train, though I am not sure what it has to do this discussion.
Maddy one. You speak much sense.
The thing is that these families are not supported by "the government". They are supported by us, the taxpayer. A dear friend of mine only had one child. She and her DH are the best parents any child could ever wish for, but they are both on low incomes and could only afford to give one child a decent upbringing, so only had one child. She says she resents the tax they pay being given to women who have what she decided she couldn't afford.
What does annoy me (and this may be another discussion really) , is women who won't put the fathers name on the birth certificate, so he can't be asked to pay anything .