Flying monkey - anyone aware of the term?

Doodledog, your comments and insight on this subject are really excellent. I discovered Elinor Greenburg too and have found her comments illuminating and wise. She too had a mother with NPD and writes movingly about the experience. There is also a book " Walking on Eggshells", I cannot remember who by but is on the internet and available on Amazon. It seems to me that in order to defend ourselves against these hidden assassins we must learn everything we can about NPD so that we can firstly identify them and secondly be armed with a defence. It's not easy to always disengage from them because they are often people who we love and can't imagine never seeing them again. There are coping mechanisms, easier if the person is a work colleague, a boss, or a friend but much more difficult when they are a family member with whom there is regular contact. It's achievable but not without constant vigilance and mental strength.

There was an intent to put me in the position of FM by the mother of a friend of mine

I understood the mother's position but told very clearly I was her daughter's friend, could do nothing to change the situation or my friend's mind.

I was always there to support her daughter no matter what

I wouldn't talk to my friend to make her change her mind.
I valued our friendship too much to put it in jeopardy

Luckily, the mother reacted well and did not put pressure on me.

Decades later, my friend and mother told me they were thankful I declined to intervene on the mother's behalf.

Not intent, but occasion- coffee, here I come

I really hope this thread doesn't fall off the end of the page, never to be seen again as personally I'm getting a lot of comfort from just hearing how others have fared in this frightening situation.

Me too. Being able to ‘open up’ has helped me, so my sincere thanks for starting this thread Golddustwoman.

boheminan do you use the "I'm on" button? It shows you all the threads you have posted on, which makes it easier to find a particular one.

Another thing that happens is 'triangulation', which is when someone else (knowingly or unknowingly) is brought in. This can work in many ways, depending on the relationship between the narcissist and the victim. It might be that they are held up as someone who could replace you in whatever role you play in the narcissist's life. Or you might be compared unfavourably to them and encouraged to compete with them. Or things you say might be ignored, only to be repeated a while later as though they'd been said by the other person - that sort of thing. Again, it is very similar behaviour, but it takes different forms.

They use 'enmeshment' to make your life more and more entangled with (and ultimately dependent on) theirs. One way or another you become isolated from the support systems you had before, and you realise that if you break away you will be entirely on your own, whether that is in life in general, in your friendship group, in your workplace, the family - again, the circumstances differ but the behaviour is the same.

It happens very gradually, and it is often otherwise strong and capable people who get sucked in. Narcissists aren't interested in low status people - they want to be associated with those who have some sort of influence, again, in whatever form that takes. They switch between being the way they were at the beginning and critical, undermining and sometimes even violent, then back again, so that you are confused and work harder to make them be 'Dr Jeckyll' again. That is known as trauma bonding. Gradually you lose your sense of self and are scared to leave. This explains why some women stay in abusive and violent relationships. They are not stupid or weak - they are trauma bonded.

I know nobody knows him so it doesn't matter, but I feel the need to point out that none of this is about Mr Dog .

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes, I have been a victim of flying monkeys - hence I have absented myself for a long time. It can be very damaging. Please don’t ask me about it.

I'm so sorry about that Germanshepherdsmum
I'd been wondering if you were OK. That's so awful. ?

I think I was used as a flying monkey by my dad who I believe had narcissistic tendencies. He groomed me for the role by moaning about my mum, how much she held him back, how unloving she was to him (including sexual details nobody wants to hear about their parents). He inundated me with his complaints, tears in his eyes...totally convincing. I loved him because he was my dad and he said I was his only confidante so I felt a desire to try to help. Subsequently I've found out that whilst this was going on he was saying terrible things, twisted lies, behind my back to others and also moaning to anyone who would listen about mum. I avoided being alone with him because the barrage was unending but he would find a way to get me alone.

My mum was not an easy person - very buttoned up- and she would also moan about him to me, but not to the same extent.

Then dad was admitted to hospital and after many days of visiting him to hear intense criticism of mum I finally plucked up the strength to ask him to stop. For the following days when I visited him he didn't speak, not one word to me. I thought he was upset at the time, but on reflection I think he just had nothing else to say to me. He wasn't interested in any aspect of my life. My only use was to be his flying monkey. He said I owed him an apology, so I apologised and he went immediately back to moaning about mum.

Having failed to fix things with him I decided to go to mum to tell her what he was saying about her and ask her if they could speak to sort things out between themselves. She exploded with rage and wouldn't answer my calls for three days. She died of a stroke on the fourth day.

I believe I was my dad's 'flying monkey' although I didn't know the term until now. He made me so angry and desperate that I did his bidding and my last conversation with my mum was awful. The guilt is still hard to bear.

My dad died a few years later. I can spot the traits of people like this so well now and avoid them. I've left a good, happy job because one colleague's behaviour reminded me so much of my dad.

I think I was manipulated. The alternative, and my fear, is that I am a cruel person who let my mum down. I shouldn't have mentioned anything to her. Easy to think that in hindsight

I'm sorry to have gone on, but this thread has struck such a chord in me. Thank you for reading, it's helped me greatly to write this down. My heart goes out to other posters who have suffered as the result of such manipulative people.

Sadly yes, very familiar. on more than one occasion When the now ex left one of his continue-the-abuse tactics was trying to ring me or desperately wanting x, y z from the house when I was away at my parents or elsewhere. I finally worked out who was telling him when I was away, blocked her from any way of finding out when I was not going to be around and it stopped, it actually was a friend of the woman he had run off with, I know that she would have been fed the lies that I know the ex told her about me, but honestly even had they been true, there was absolutely no justification for facilitating that abuse and actually looking back some of the times she found out through what I now see as a breach of data protection legislation
And @VioletSky yes for sure all of those - when people say things like they've never seen X behave like that - well so many people say that about people who go on to commit murders and abuse, why can't people see that some people can wear a velvet mask that covers a cruel face. Most people loved Dr Shipman didn't they. My children knew someone who ended up murdering his girlfriend, they both said that they would not have imagined he could do such a thing,
And the old there are 2 sides to every story.....well some people are just lying abusers, they present themselves as squeaky clean and would never tell the truth,, how the victim was justifiably upset by their actions perhaps, what do you expect, she's always so miserable, not being told the reason she is so miserable is that she was shouted at all the way in the car, well, my experience anyway

Thank you FarNorth for your tip, yes I do often look to 'I'm on' but I fear this thread will be abandoned, and it's been such a huge help to some traumatised by abuse women.

It'd be great if there was a Support for Victims of Abuse topic, which to me is different from Estrangement, but I guess GN wouldn't be up for it. In the meantime, I'll follow what others here have experienced and hopefully learn to cope.

Doodledog at 16.15 yesterday
Another cracker on the subject , especially the summary of triangulation.
Good summary of the way women can be seduced into staying with men who emotionally and in other ways abuse them.

RichmondPark1. Thanks for setting out your experience of being used by your father in his war with your mum. Your post didn’t go on and I hope it continues to help, having written it down

boheminan you could copy & paste the URL from the address bar of this thread into an email to yourself.
There are a lot of good posts on Mumsnet too, if you have time to look around there. It's a lot bigger than GN.

I have recollections about the phrase 'I don't give a flying monkey about it'. Meant that you didn't care two hoots about something. This goes back to when I was young...now 71.

When I was a kid in Birmingham the phrase was, 'I don't give a flying monkey!' In other words I don't care or 'don't give a fig'. I had no idea it had other connotations.

Everyone should read all they can about NPD, to educate themselves. There is plenty on U Tube.

Never heard the term but would pay good money to see one

The biggest problem with NPD is that those who have it don't know.

They don't seek help.

They don't look for mental health help or therapy.

They believe themselves justified in their own behaviour.

It is exhausting honestly.

L Frank Baum. The winged monkeys he introduced into the Wizard of Oz were thought to represent the way in which Native Americans had been dealt with by the pioneers. Baum was editor of a weekly newspaper in South Dakota, at a time when the local economy was in a slump and tensions between settlers and Native Americans were high. He used his position to comment on political and social events, including the conflict with the Sioux Indians. He had an oddly mixed attitude - saddened by their plight, but supportive of the army, wiping them out, as the only way forward for the pioneers.

When they are introduced in the book, the Winged Monkeys appear as a fierce fighting band that destroy the Scarecrow, damage the Tin Woodman, and capture Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion. Later, when the monkeys are no longer under the control of the wicked witch of the west, and are helping Dorothy and her group, the king monkey explains their origin to Dorothy:

“Once,” began the leader, “we were a free people, living happily in the great forest, flying from tree to tree, eating nuts and fruit, and doing just as we pleased without calling anybody master. Perhaps some of us were rather too full of mischief at times, flying down to pull the tails of the animals that had no wings, chasing birds, and throwing nuts at the people who walked in the forest. But we were careless and happy and full of fun, and enjoyed every minute of the day.”

Re. your post @ 08.06 Iam Doodledog's post yesterday also summarises how men can be seduced into staying in controlling, manipulative and abusive relationships, which sadly is our ES.

Yes, I am at the moment in an unpleasant legal battle, and he uses my, once dear, Uncle as his flying monkey. Swiftly realised my family is very male centered and females should expect nothing

What is NPD?

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Ellie.

We have that problem in my wider family. Several years ago a relative tried to ruin my relationships at my church by telling falsehoods.
Very upsetting.