Grandfathers Are Important Too

Depends on the grandparents. Some grandparents can also be pretty toxic. I don’t think there is value in any grandparent relationship where the actual parents are disrespected by the grandparent. Children need safe, respectful, loving examples. The OP alone doesn’t give the impression that the FIL is good example of those things. It’s his job to work on that. Other family member’s are not responsible for accommodating him there. Furthermore, the parents would be doing the child a disservice by showing that it’s okay to carry on relationships with disrespectful people. Character matters more than blood relation. Not every family member is fine to raise your child around. Frankly, I find it absurd that all these strangers and the OP think they know what’s best for this child more than the child’s own parents.

Yes, they can.

But some parents of young children can also be pretty toxic, and not always do what's right by their children.

Of course, all of the adults involved should work towards being loving and supportive to each other - that is the best outcome.,

One day the child will be old enough to choose which of his relatives he wishes to see. As a young child I saw little of my grandmother by my parents wishes but I did still form a bond with her. As I grew ollder (in secondary school) I used to sneak off to see her without telling my parents. I was playing with X or at sports practice (I never went to sorts practice in my life). It was a game and I grew into quite an accomplished liar.

Children have their own way of working things out and the DIL is simply storing up problems for herself in the future.

Stay out of it. If you choose to get involved, I don't see any way in which it can be anything other than a negative and potentially painful experience for all concerned.

DiamondLily

Yes, they can.

But some parents of young children can also be pretty toxic, and not always do what's right by their children.

Of course, all of the adults involved should work towards being loving and supportive to each other - that is the best outcome.,

And there are no indications outside of the meddling grandmother to suggest these parents are toxic. The fact that she thinks she has a right to tell these parents who they should allow around their child proves that her own lack of boundaries is more than enough to feel safe that these parents know better what’s best for their child. Entitled grandparents aren’t an authority on other people’s children.

The best possible outcome is whatever these two parents decide it is…because they know what’s best for their child.

biglouis

One day the child will be old enough to choose which of his relatives he wishes to see. As a young child I saw little of my grandmother by my parents wishes but I did still form a bond with her. As I grew ollder (in secondary school) I used to sneak off to see her without telling my parents. I was playing with X or at sports practice (I never went to sorts practice in my life). It was a game and I grew into quite an accomplished liar.

Children have their own way of working things out and the DIL is simply storing up problems for herself in the future.

Doubtful. My children didn’t grow up with my husband’s toxic mother in their lives. They don’t miss her and skipped several opportunities to visit whenever we brought the family back to the UK. I trust that the loudmouth grandfather, who was disrespectful to the child’s mother and apparently father, will been seen by the grandchild for who he is. Children have a tendency to be repulsed by people who don't treat their parents well. As I said, I trust the parents know better than the entitled grandparents and strangers on the internet.

Luckily, long gone are the day where grandparents are revered as the paragon of knowledge and no matter what they do, family defers to them

"Children have their own way of working things out ..." Yes biglouis I think you're right.

Did your parents ever know, either because they found out you were seeing your GM or because you told them?

Some friends of ours have a relative who sees her GD, and has done for years but her D knows nothing about it. She was 17 or 18 when she first made contact despite having no memory of her, beginning with 'phone calls and texts before finally meeting up, which they now do on a regular basis.

Yes, teenagers often sort it out for themselves, even if the parents don't know.

I hope OPs family sort it out between them - for everyone's sake.

I hope for the child’s sake that they are protected from witnessing any disrespectful behavior toward their parents, regardless of who the offender is. I trust that the parents are making the right decisions…because they know what’s best for their child. I hope that the grandparents learn that the road to a relationship with a child is through the parents. And if not, oh well. They can cling to the romanticized idea that one day the grandchild will seek them out and turn on their parents. A fantasy most with that sort of wishful thinking simply won’t live to see.

What about the grandfather writing a heartfelt letter to his son and daughter in law, apologisng for any past comments or behaviour and asking if they would consider allowing him to make appends, saying he fully respects them as the baby parents and will adhere to their all wishes and any conditions

He would be grateful to the parents, if could be allowed see his grandchild and would absolutely respect the parent wishes as to when and where.

That's only my take on the matter.

Hithere

Luckily, long gone are the day where grandparents are revered as the paragon of knowledge and no matter what they do, family defers to them

You will see many still cling to it, however delusional it seems. Times are changing. I am happy to see many younger people valuing love and respect over lineage. Many cycles of toxicity are being broken because lots of parents are deciding they want to show their children healthier relationships. I salute this young mum for recognizing that the mistreatment of herself and her husband was a red line. Hopefully the grans will take ownership of their behavior and modify it appropriately. Healthy, respectful relationships a key for young children.

DiamondLily

Yes, teenagers often sort it out for themselves, even if the parents don't know.

I hope OPs family sort it out between them - for everyone's sake.

It’s interesting. My eldest dd and I had a discussion about my parents who I’ve been NC with for over a decade now. She’s aware of the issues as to why, as we always had age appropriate discussions whenever she asked. I’m of the mindset that if kids ask, they deserve an honest, albeit age appropriate answer. Admittedly, I withheld some of the worst, simply because I didn’t want her hurt (empathetic kid, she’d hurt for me). We had a frank talk when she was nearing 18 and asked how I’d feel if she contacted my mother. Out of all our kids, she’s the only one that has even vague memories of her. I told her that was her decision, but I asked that she not give any information about myself or her siblings, and absolutely no contact information for any of us. I also told her that there was no fixing it. That if she had any fantasy about reuniting us, she needed to realize that wasn’t an option.

She decided not to. I was admittedly relieved, because I honestly can’t imagine any contact with my mother being healthy or safe, and didn’t want my dd going through that, but also knew that I needed to step back and let her make her own decisions.

Not your battle to fight.

Cherrytree59

What about the grandfather writing a heartfelt letter to his son and daughter in law, apologisng for any past comments or behaviour and asking if they would consider allowing him to make appends, saying he fully respects them as the baby parents and will adhere to their all wishes and any conditions

He would be grateful to the parents, if could be allowed see his grandchild and would absolutely respect the parent wishes as to when and where.

That's only my take on the matter.

I think this would be the right thing to do. I am sure the son would want his child to have a relationship with the grandfather if he showed genuine contrition and modified his behavior accordingly. A little bit of humility and a genuine apology may go a long way.

Maybe a bit off thrack here but...

Why aren't more grandparents concerned primarily about mending the relationship with their own now adult children?

I would find this loss to be the most awful imaginable. I love our grandchildren dearly but I love them because they are my children's children.

My first and deepest love is for my children.
Maybe I'm odd.

I'm not singling anyone out but phrases like being "grateful to the parents if allowed see grandchildren" and "feeling as though I'm missing out on my grandchildren" etc make me wonder what others feel about this.

I confess I'm nor estranged from anyone so I accept I'm maybe talking rubbish here.
Thanks.

Sometimes it just isn't possible NotSpaghetti. There needs to be a willingness to communicate and when your EAC refuses to do so, there's nothing you can do.

The loss is as you say "the most awful imaginable". I was knocked back by the over whelming love I had for our first GC the instant I saw him, because he was our adored son's son.

We loved him because he's our son's son. There's a love there too for his brother even though we've never met him for the same reason.

We love our ES. There's a piece of my heart that belongs only to him and can never belong to anyone else.

You're not talking rubbish but of course GP's feel they're missing out on their GC because they are. I think it's sad if GP's are grateful if they're allowed to see their GC because to me, being a GP to your AC's children is the most natural thing in the world.

Some do see them, even if their AC doesn't want to his/her parents.

FWIW I think you did the right thing MercuryQueen. Your D knew she was free to make contact and you were quite right to ask her not to pass on any information about you and her siblings.

Your relief at her decision is understandable and you both know that she was able to reach that decision with your understanding, which is how it should be.

My adult kids did contact my ex MIL, with my blessing. It made no odds to me.

After I went NC with her, I was always open to my ex taking the kids to see his mother - he chose not to.

However, she hadn't changed, they didn't like her, so they never went back. Their decision.

NotSpaghetti

Maybe a bit off thrack here but...

Why aren't more grandparents concerned primarily about mending the relationship with their own now adult children?

I would find this loss to be the most awful imaginable. I love our grandchildren dearly but I love them because they are my children's children.

My first and deepest love is for my children.
Maybe I'm odd.

I'm not singling anyone out but phrases like being "grateful to the parents if allowed see grandchildren" and "feeling as though I'm missing out on my grandchildren" etc make me wonder what others feel about this.

I confess I'm nor estranged from anyone so I accept I'm maybe talking rubbish here.
Thanks.

I agree with you, but that only works if the ACs lay out what the problem is, and are willing to discuss it.

Too many of them send emails, texts etc and then refuse to discuss it.

And, to be fair, some older people do the same to their adults kids.

Which is a pretty immature response, and makes it nigh on impossible to sort out.

Communication is the key DL as without it it's "nigh on impossible to sort out" so I guess whoever wont communicate just doesn't want to try to find a solution.

Smileless2012

Communication is the key DL as without it it's "nigh on impossible to sort out" so I guess whoever wont communicate just doesn't want to try to find a solution.

No, although none of it involves my relationship with my kids, I'm surrounded by estrangers in the wider family.

So a lot of confused estranged people, met with sulking silence by the estrangers.🙄

Thanks, Smileless.

NGL, it was scary. I know how good my mother is at manipulation, and everything in me wants to protect my kids. But that’s part of parenting… letting them make their own decisions and hoping they don’t get hurt.

Sometimes separation is the solution. You can communicate until you are blue in the face, but if behaviours don’t change then communication is becomes pointless. Sometimes you have to protect yourself and your children and walk away.

Thanks Smileless2012 and others.
I suppose it was really in response to the comments I see a lot on Gransnet where the grandparent feels entitled to see a grandchild pretty much on their terms whilst just being rude about the parents. It did spring from this thread but wasn't really about it...

You are right of course, if you try and try to make a good relationship with your adult child (or vice-versa) but still can't do it - I realise a relationship takes two - then it must be the very worst pain.

In these cases, if it were me, I'm sure I would at least hope that at some point in the future my grandchildren might want to find me.
I am deeply grateful that I'm not in that position.

lyleLyle

Sometimes separation is the solution. You can communicate until you are blue in the face, but if behaviours don’t change then communication is becomes pointless. Sometimes you have to protect yourself and your children and walk away.

I agree - but the reasons, for any anger, should be communicated to start with.

No one can respond to anything, if they don't know what the problems are.