Boundaries and one on one time with adult son.

Argh. One on one

Hithere

OP

How often do you meet your son 1:1 for a meal without his wife?

Probably two or three times a year, Hithere.

I have hardly seen in him in ages so thought it was a nice idea and a chance to catch up.

Generally go out as a threesome or more if my other kids and their partners can make it.

We don’t have other family and don’t see dd regularly so it doesn’t happen often.
Lunch once in a while for an hour or two and if her dh is working it’s really nice to spend time just with her.

OP, unless you are privy to the details of your DIL’s outings with her parents, as in you know for a fact they don’t extend invitations to your son, I don’t think that information is relevant. It’s rude to schedule a dinner and expect a married person to know their spouse is excluded. The uproar if someone did the same with an “older” couple would be palpable.

I wouldn't expect my son to go out with me without his wife and children. He comes as a package now and I love that he's part of a family.

See ,that annoys me inishowen .Are you saying that because you're in a relationship you cant be in a different kind of relationship/friendship with other people ?
I think that is very odd I've stayed friends with men I worked with 50 years ago and if they are in our area we'll meet for lunch and have a laugh about the place we worked in.
Would you suggest my OH should be there even though he didn't know me then or the place and people I worked with?

I still say the OP should be able to have a couple of hours with her son to celebrate his brthday which is a big event for her too .Without the package who weren't even a speck in the sky then

The OP can want what she wants. The husband and wife clearly feel they are a package deal, since the son hasn’t objected to his wife’s presence at the upcoming dinner. At this point in their lives, their relationship with each others takes precedence over all others. OP should be polite and go to dinner with her son and his wife without mentioning separating them.

I would consider that if your son wanted to have dinner wit just yourself he wouldn’t have invited his wife to come. Perhaps consider that. I do find the whole notion of longing for alone time with one’s grown kids strange , and not something I’ve personally experienced.

In this instance just go with it as it's a special occasion. But I'm with you, OP. After all, he is your son. You should be able to spend time alone with him whether he's married or not. Just because we have partners doesn't mean we are joined at the hip. I'd give my eye teeth to spend more time with my son without his partner, lovely though she is. We share a sense of humour as well as everything else and when we do, rarely spend time alone it's great fun. I always used to encourage DH to see his Mum on his own as I knew she'd appreciate it. Can't understand why more DILs don't appreciate this.

Presumably the sons have some say in whether or not mummy gets alone time with them. I guess it’s easier to imagine the pushy DIL who doesn’t give her husband a minute to breathe alone than it is to imagine that these men genuinely view themselves as a package deal with their wives. Interesting.

Some people perpetuate this ridiculous stereotype that its ok for a mother/daughter get together but weird and undermining a marriage if its a mother/son event, how very patronising

Not ridiculous, not weird, not patronising, just a different point of view.
No-one mentioned undermining a marriage did they?

It's just that not everyone agrees with you, which is allowed, I think.

There’s nothing at all strange in a son (or daughter for that matter) having one to one with a parent a coffee and call round to the house for a meal on the way home from work, an informal meet up

There IS something strange about booking a restaurant meal for one and not both I wouldn’t dream of taking a son or daughter out to a restaurant meal and leave the spouse at home (although I can’t cos he’s in NZ and I only see him once in a blue moon) and he wouldn’t come and leave her behind anyway

I was thrilled when my DH visited my MiL on his own. She was a nightmare. At least it seems your DiL likes you!

Of course you must invite his wife!
I wouldn’t dream of not .

I don't understand why this is a massive thing and has become so polar opposite

Sometimes I see my eldest sons alone, sometimes not but I don't really mind, I just like seeing them

If people want to have a chat with just their child phonecalls and video calls still exist

Also I quite like my future DILs

If people want to have a chat with just their child phonecalls and video calls still exist
But that’s not what this is about VS it’s about the poster booking a restaurant meal for just one and leaving the other at home alone and surely that’s rude
It’s not about a casual meet-up for a coffee or a chat or a girls shopping trip It’s about a more formal ‘ treat’ a booking that gives out the message to the daughter in law that you are not invited you are not part of this
Whilst my ex used to visit his mum on his own , if they had booked a restaurant pre birthday meal and left me at home I d find that hurtful and think something was afoot

I thought it was a cafe?

I gave up trying to keep up with gransnet on work days

But my point is, why does it matter if DIL is there or not when it comes to seeing your child, just send open invites and see who turns up and have a great time

Argh but no, I still don't see a problem with inviting just your child out for a meal

I had a rubbish relationship with my mum but my friends relationship is lovely. She is married with children but goes out just her and her mum and they even occasionally go on holiday together.

I go out with just one friend on occasion just to spend time together

I'm just not getting it

But I'm flexible, if I invited my child out for a meal and they wanted to bring their partner I wouldn't mind at all...

I think all of us see our adult children on their own occasionally. In our case one of our sons drops in (with the children actually) if his wife is working at a weekend... one daughter isn't working at the moment and sometimes pops in with her little one when her husband is at work.

The odd thing here (at least some of us think) is the dinner invite to celebrate a birthday without his most significant other.

Regarding your comment above, Violet - this is the clue:

if I invited my child out for a meal and they wanted to bring their partner I wouldn't mind at all...

- no of course you wouldn't! because that would be unreasonable!

I would not expect DS to come and see me without my daughter in law unless he’s intending to spend the day helping me with the garden, or similar, but when he does come here on his own I love having him to myself so much. They don’t live locally so I don’t see him as often as I see DD. Like Skydancer and her DS, we share a sense of humour and many interests. We never run out of things to talk about. I get on well with my DiL, who tries very hard with me, bless her, but we don’t have a lot in common so it’s easy to run out of conversation. She always brings her knitting!😁

Dorrian maybe your son and his wife simply assumed the invite was meant for both of them, rather than DiL 'inviting herself' or your DS not wanting a 1-1 meeting, as someone suggested.

Go with the flow this time then, another time, say to your DS that you'd love to have an outing with him on his own and when would suit him.

I wonder, tho, if your saying DiL 'invited herself' means there is tension between you so that you took that uncharitable view rather than thinking they automatically assumed she was invited.
If that's the case, it's probably best not to suggest seeing DS on his own.

I wondered the same as FarNorth. I’m interested to know if both son&DIL assumed they were a package deal, and OP is the one viewing the situation as DIL inviting herself.

I really like my future DILs and do not want to mess up 😄

For me this is not about whether OP sees the son on her own. It's about the exclusion of her DiL. My children live too far away to see most of the time, but I would never issue an invite that excludes their partner. Sometimes a partner is busy elsewhere or has plans in which case the AC may come on their own anyway, or bring the GC. They don't consider themselves tied at the hip. I did used to see my eldest son occasionally for coffee when we were both working in London, but if DiL had arrived too (unlikely as she didn't work nearby) that would have been okay. I see all this 'Mum/Dad seeing/not seeing son/daughter' as a bit of a red herring, it's about showing some respect to the partner of your child.

How do we know th dil invited herseld? Did she do so to the op
? Or perhaps it’s possible her so. Surely thought she was I citing them out to dinner to celebrate his birthday and included his wife ? I do find the idea that our children’s birthdays are special not just to them but to us a bit silly . “The other person involved in his ortho”
Good grief , reminds me of my own mil (wi th whom
We’ve been estranged for
Decades ) who used to insist my husband shouldn’t be telling her happy birthday on his birthday as she’s the one who gave birth!