Husband and DIL don’t get along so we don’t visit our son or grandchildren

Please, I need to know what to do.

Hi needadvice it sounds as if your daughter in law has a mental health condition she sounds VERY volatile but they have been married 15 years and have three children and she seems to get on well with your younger son and wife so she can’t be all bad She certainly can’t control herself because to shout and rant in front of her children shows little self control and is down right wrong and is far worse than telling someone they re no longer 18 I see nothing wrong with that I’ve been told that when climbing ladders etc
She obviously has a big problem with your husband, and then with you by default

In your position I would keep a fairly low profile for awhile perhaps try visiting short period without your husband, as he seems to be the red rag for her and try and build the relationship very slowly don’t overdo it with visits and do whatever you are told with the grandchildren. It will seem annoying at first to have to be so careful, but I think this slowly slowly approach might help any future relationships with the children. The 15-year-old will soon be able to make his own mind up as to whether to see you or not.

If I am ever really stuck in a situation I think of the three moves I could make: 1. Do nothing. 2. Wait to see if things change.3 Go for the attack. You will need to decide what is worth doing. Also, you can go what I call 'beige'. That means you let them make the moves and only make small moves like remembering birthdays and Christmas in small ways and just ask simple questions like 'How are you all?' You can then gauge her response and see if she flies off the handle for that. Also, listen to the types of words she uses. Are they questions? (sign of intelligent gatekeeping) or are they accusatory and negative (what on earth is going on inside her brain?). What are her family like? Has she bee brought up with a destructive model? A lot goes into making a person tick and if you can observe and watch what triggers her, it will take some of the personal affront away and perhaps open up avenues of communication to those you want to communicate with i.e. your son and grandchildren. Good luck!

Needadvice:

'So what now, other than not getting in touch with the children? Should I try to talk to our son about it? Ask my husband what he wants to do? Just leave it alone?'

I'd say - don't take a problem-solving approach - you won't win. Just accept the situation (however unfair and upsetting). Keep yourself well out of the firing line, even apologise if required. That way, you retain contact with your son and grandchildren.

Think of her as a person who is very ill (but never say it) and the hurt feelings will be easier to cope with. My difficult experience with my mother has helped enormously with coping with my DIL - a similar character.

I can avoid the triggers, I'm extra loving and supportive, placid and understanding, a complete doormat, in fact. In the long run, it's worth it. My son and grandchildren know exactly what she's like, of course. It all stems from an overwhelming insecurity. She's not all bad, as she's a good mother and she loves my son.

I would treat her with kid gloves,she is mentally unstable and enjoys the drama and being the centre of attention, which is irrational. You an only imagine the life that family have, such behaviour can't be switched on and off. Can't understand the son letting his children go through that though. If your DH happy to stay away and you can have contact do, but tread very, very carefully, on eggshells and don't give an opinion on anything, if in doubt say nought. Personally I would let them get on with it.

I agree with those who suggest you take the contact that's offered Needadvice without asking for anymore or discussing her behaviour with your son.

As has been suggested, any meetings which include her would be better if they were in a public place and if both 'sides' were not constrained by a time to leave so if anything happens, you can remove yourselves from the situation.

If your husband doesn't want to be included then go without him. It's not a good set up for either of you, but at least it will enable you to continue with the relationship and hopefully your son will stay in touch with his dad in ways that don't include his wife .

Needadvice This is such a worrying dilemma for you.

I think you should accept the contact that is being offered. Your husband must make his own decision that is right for him. You are not being "disloyal" by seeing the family without him, you are maintaining what is being offered and giving time for others to decide what they wish to do. You will be there for your family as best you can

I do think it is wise to meet them as a couple and to withdraw if things become difficult. Let your son decide when and if he wishes to discuss anything with you and try to enjoy your grandchildren and sustain your relationship with them so that you are there if they need you.

Needadvice

Please, I need to know what to do.

Stop speculating about why your DIL does not like your husband

Arrange to see them, just you, sit down and have a conversation about it. Ask them their reasons.

Stay calm, don't make accusations, listen to them and then go away and calmly have a think about it or talk it through with a counsellor or someone you can trust to be impartial.

Next steps depend on what son and DIL say

Great advice Madgran.

This is a no win situation for you Needadvice and better not to address the matter with them, especially with your d.i.l.

We have different advice

One involves communicating and finding a way to address and work through issues

One involves allowing OP to speculate behind her son and daughter in laws back and doesn't actually ever address or resolve issues

This is why so many families have problems, they don't listen to problems, they dont take time to understand that even if their perception of events are different, the other person is hurt and then they can never be accountable or apologise for their part in those problems...

Communication is key in many of these situations

If anyone truly believes that children they raised do not know what they are thinking or saying behind the scenes while they use manipulation and fakeness to get what they want out of the relationship (usually access to the grandchildren) then I just don't know what to say

Because without direct communication that speculation will be going both ways and the situation will likely end in estrangement

Don’t try and fix it with her. You will never win.
Continue seeing your son and grandchildren on your turf.
Never, ever, say anything about DIL to anyone, especially your son.
Try not to focus on the problem. Find other things to occupy you.
Then wait it out. Nothing lasts forever.
Children get older and have their own minds. Marriages end.
You’re not the first in this situation and you won’t be the last.
Never ever go for confrontation.

Sorry there is no solution
Keep DH away from DIL
Accept that is the way she is and make the best of it
Hopefully the GC will remain in contact when they got older.
Find other interests to fill your time if you need to.

I don't think anyone here is 'allowing' Needadvice to do anything VS. She's not seeking permission, she's asked for suggestions and advice which are being given.

Who are you referring too in your post when you mention the use of "manipulation and fakeness to get what they want out of the relationship (usually access to the grandchildren)"?

It sounds as if you're referring to GP's.

Is this for real? If it is, it's way too complex a situation to be addressed via social media, where all your likely to see is one side of the "story" anyway. Over and out.

Why does the OP keep referring to DIY? (As opposed to DIL) Is it a typo or some sort of code for something else?

VioletSky

We have different advice

One involves communicating and finding a way to address and work through issues

One involves allowing OP to speculate behind her son and daughter in laws back and doesn't actually ever address or resolve issues

This is why so many families have problems, they don't listen to problems, they dont take time to understand that even if their perception of events are different, the other person is hurt and then they can never be accountable or apologise for their part in those problems...

Communication is key in many of these situations

If anyone truly believes that children they raised do not know what they are thinking or saying behind the scenes while they use manipulation and fakeness to get what they want out of the relationship (usually access to the grandchildren) then I just don't know what to say

Because without direct communication that speculation will be going both ways and the situation will likely end in estrangement

Generally I would absolutely agree with you Violet as I always tend to advocate open communication and careful listening. In this particular case I feel there are some aspects that make it better for the OP to wait and to take what is offered at the present moment. I certainly wouldn't advocate speculation about the reasons, as you say that gets nowhere generally

I do think that if there is another specific " event" similar to as described by the OP, then it would be best for that specific event to be addressed by a direct conversation and careful listening regarding the specifics , the behaviours and the reasons. I think this might create better communication than going back over past events etc.

So I suppose we agree but with a slightly different angle really 😏

Yes I see what you are saying Madgran

Communication would have been much easier before this point dealing with things in the moment.

Maybe a better thing to do is communicate about how to have a better relationship in future. Maybe past problems would be addressed but then they would be addressed as examples rather than ongoing arguments. Whether Dad would be up for that or not, mum should definitely try

The best way to have a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents

Yes very true, but the relationship needs to be reciprocal and it doesn't look as if that's what the OP's d.i.l. wants.

How can that be known if communication doesn't happen?

I think it was Hithere who mentioned death by papercuts

So many things can seem small and inconsequential to others until they are all put together and you see how much blood the person has actually lost and why they are running around screaming for help

Yes indeed and that can be the case for the parents or the GP's. Communication needs to be desired by all concerned and it does appear in this particular case, that the d.i.l. is unwilling and/or incapable of communicating effectively and calmly.

Appearances is an interesting word

Smileless2012

Yes indeed and that can be the case for the parents or the GP's. Communication needs to be desired by all concerned and it does appear in this particular case, that the d.i.l. is unwilling and/or incapable of communicating effectively and calmly.

I agree Smileless that the desire to have a relationship does not seem reciprocal from what the OP has told us. I think that is why I feel that an attempt at communication needs to start from when an "event" happens, if it does. It may lead to discussing past events as well but who knows.

Indeed, better communication in the past MIGHT have avoided this situation VS butvas things are where they are it's no longer really relevant except as a possible consideration for moving forward

Needadvice I hope that you can find a way forward for yourself from all the advice given 💐

I find the use of the word 'appear' diplomatic rather than interesting.

Violet Sky I do think that if there is another specific " event" similar to as described by the OP, then it would be best for that specific event to be addressed by a direct conversation and careful listening regarding the specifics , the behaviours and the reasons. “

If and when an incident happens again I will try to bring all adults together to talk, without the children if possible ( though they seem to be her main audience). I tried for hours to sympathize, love, beg, talk to her for hours over the last event, the %18 year old comment when sure was 42), but she kept crying and wouldn’t talk.

Thank you for all of your kind suggestions. I am now 77 and I’ll try them all. Love to each and every one of you.

Needadvice well done for trying. I am glad you have found a way forward within the suggestions made.

One thing I would say though is begging is not usually a successful part of an adult conversation about problems. I totally understand the sense of desperation that leads to "begging" but I would suggest avoiding it if you can.

Focus on asking questions, listening carefully, expressing views kindly and thinking carefully about what has been said. That way seems the best chance for all involved to consider their own responsibilities to themselves, each other and the children. I truly hope you can find a way through x