Married nearly 35 years Help!

Incredibly sensible post Bluebelle
You, OP have presumably enjoyed the life of a SAHM and a degree of affluence and comfort you might not have had if your DH had not been what you (or others) describe as an “Alpha male”
Now that he is under your feet in the home which he (remember) provided and paid for and you can enjoy your auction visits, holidays and hopefully a comfortable retirement you seem to resent him.
Perhaps he is bossy - stand up to him, this is not coercive control- you may find it preferable to be diplomatic if you do not relish confrontation.
Even if a man sees himself as the head of the household, you are the neck and the neck turns the head!
As ye sowed, so shall ye reap!

Look, let me explain what I wrote about sometimes DH making me change my clothes if he doesn’t like what I’m wearing as it seems to be a bone of contention. It all started when I was a corporate wife and we were going to some black tie event or some other function to do with his work. I used to check in with him about what I should wear and I guess because of that, sometimes, and I stress sometimes, he might tell me to change BUT he really likes my dress sense and more often than not compliments me.

Frankly, OP I think you could qualify for next year’s Boat Race, the amount of rowing back you are doing. One has to ask why?

What you said in you OP was that he hates me looking a ‘mess’ as he calls it! How would it be possible to look a mess when considering what to wear for a black tie event?

The replies I framed were based on what you wrote in you opening post where you pleaded Help! and was all about the ways your husband has sought to control you over 35 years. You ended with when I look ahead it is with a feeling of dread, so what exactly do you mean? Dread is a very strong word. It means fear of future events. Are you saying that, on the strength of this discussion, you no longer dread it?

I make no apologises over my attitude towards any man who thinks he has a right to control a woman, to tell her how to behave and she ends up acquiesing to keep the peace - which is what you said you do. I don’t care what his working background is or was. Work and home life are two different things. Men in positions of authority, where they are responsible for people management and discipline don’t have a right to come home and manage and discipline their wives. They should leave their work personae at the front door. One might as well argue that a man who spends his working day hitting things with a hammer has a right to come home and hit his wife.

You have excused this man’s behaviour as conservative and traditional as if that is a good thing. It isn’t. It’s Victorian, That era ended 124 years ago. Male patriarchy should be is as dead as the Victorians.

At 70, I am closer to your husband’s age than you are, but we seem to have very different attitudes about male behaviour. Anything I say is falling on deaf ears because you are now rowing back at pace on things you said yesterday.

Why?

When I read you saying: I know that is my fault. it makes me very sad indeed. No, it isn’t your fault. It was never your fault. He has just made you think it it.

What is an alpha male?

BlueBelle

You ve had a blessed life all round He has been a true breadwinner and with that comes some downside he’s obviously had to be an alpha male in his work and to earn the kind of money he has earned and he was your choice
Many of us have made choices that haven’t been good sometimes disastrous, without having the good life you ve had It worked out just as you wanted it to you stayed at home with the children which was your comfort zone
Now the kids are gone and Mr provider is still providing but no longer away from the home so not so comfortable for you
So now you have three choices to my mind ….you either
1) carry on as normal as he is not going to change now
2) You can leave and give up the good life ( you don’t sound as if you want to do that or could even remotely manage on your own)
3) Build up a retirement life doing some things like holidays auctions meals out etc with him, do some things with friends and I would suggest some volunteering which could give you a voice and a purpose

But whatever you decide remember you HAVE had the life you wanted with a generous, career minded bossy man.
You weren’t tied with ropes and handcuffed

Even diamonds may have faults

This this this.. all day this!

Bravo BlueBelle

Remember, even diamonds have faults. Indeed they do.

I’ve not read all of the comments but I can understand where the OP is coming from. My suggestion would be to find a good counsellor/therapist and spend some time looking at who she is, how she has interacted with her husband, how she feels about this, what she wants for her future and how she can achieve this.
If she wants to make the marriage work, what she has to do to be more assertive and if she decides to leave how to achieve more confidence.
It may take some time and cash but it would be a safe space to explore all possibilities.

My understanding is an alpha male is a personality type, no reason you can't have alpha females but alphas are usually males. It's not the grades (A, B, C) but just a personality type where ambition, risk taking & having coronaries is very prevalent, & a dry sense of humour, gentleness & collaberative working less so.

Like all classifications it's a generalisation & most people are in-between types.

It really doesn't matter that you've had a good life up to now, if you aren't happy now and don't see it improving in the future.
I'd try to talk to him, maybe some joint counselling. He's having to adapt to retirement and many people don't find that easy.
Maybe write down your concerns, maybe a list of good and bad things, what you think could be improved and how. He could maybe do the same. Somehow you need to communicate in order to move forward and enjoy the changes and challenges that retirement can bring. I wish you all the best, retirement isn't always easy.

Agree with Old Frill - this isn't leaping out at me as abuse or a spent relationship, but some talking is definitely in order; he can't say he's too busy, now, can he?

I have been known to criticise DH's clothes too - I try really hard to do it nicely, & DH rolls his eyes sarcastically if he doesn't like my outfit. I mean, it's part of being married.
As he's so traditional maybe he thinks if you dress down it looks like he's not a good provider. Some people's egos are paper-thin beneath the veneer of confidence.

An alpha male is the dominant male animal in a particular group - the one the other males have to fight for supremacy in the herd. In the animal kingdon they fight for supremacy to lead the pack and have sexual access to the females; stags, bears, lions, dogs, primates etc.

In the human world they compete to be seen as the most important and the wealthest. Access to females might come as part of that. I’m sure we can all think of cases where a physically unattractive man nevertheless attracts beautiful women with his power, money and fame.

We often hear alpha male animal names used to describe men. He’s a stag. He’s a lion. He’s a bear. He’s top dog.

It wasn’t until the 1990s that the phrase started to be applied to the human world. It followed from primatologist and ethologist Frans de Waal's 1982 book Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes. He observed that behavour in a chimpanzee colony might be applied to human interactions.

In de Waal’s later piece The Surprising Science of Alpha Males he describes how he doesn’t like the term as it is used in the business world as it has come to be synonymous with workplace bullies.

I think the term alpha male, if you look it up on the Internet, you will find all these business books that tell you how to be an alpha male, and what they mean is how to beat up others and beat them over the head, and let them know that you're boss and don't mess with me and so on. Basically, alpha male is a bully.

So in the context of this discussion, being an alpha male isn’t a positive attribute at all.

Char65

Look, let me explain what I wrote about sometimes DH making me change my clothes if he doesn’t like what I’m wearing as it seems to be a bone of contention. It all started when I was a corporate wife and we were going to some black tie event or some other function to do with his work. I used to check in with him about what I should wear and I guess because of that, sometimes, and I stress sometimes, he might tell me to change BUT he really likes my dress sense and more often than not compliments me.

So WTF is the problem?

I really don't think some posters are helping the OP to find the best way forward. They only seem to see one side of the equation.

Bluebelle - good post.

So WTF is the problem?
The OP.

Quite happy to accept all that has been offered for years but now wants change.

Let us know the outcome of any discussion, Char65.
I hope it is positive.

I suppose you had some feelings, which when shared here and had various replies, now cooled the sting and you are ready to go back to the life with the man whom you have for very long time.

I would not put up with that behaviour for five minutes. Who does he think he is telling you what to wear, or saying you look a mess? To be honest you need to talk with him and explain his behaviour is totally unacceptable. If he will not see this, sorry but I'd be seeing a solicitor. Life is too short to be treated like this and quite frankly, he wouldn't have lasted 35 minutes with me, let alone 35 years. I do understand not everyone is assertive though, but, did he behave like this when you were first going out? Or, was he a charmer? I'm sorry you are going through this but don't let him treat you this way.

I would agree: what IS is the problem?
Char has a very comfortable lifestyle which she admits she enjoys; is comfortably off with interesting outings and activities to entertain her; a close family and grandchildren nearby; no apparent financial or health worries, simply a traditional, conservative husband with a strong sense of responsibility for his family and a generous nature who is NOT coercive and controlling but possibly somewhat autocratic and on occasion slightly overbearing.
I feel rather sorry for this man, whom I imagine would be shattered to learn he was being discussed by a group of unknown women and labelled a coercive, controlling alpha male on the basis of a few ill-thought out comments by his dearly loved wife.
What appears to be missing from the OP's life is any real sense of purpose; she appears to lack interests of her own, no close friendships, activities and pursuits she initiates, simply a passive attitude and an increasing sense of dissatisfaction.

The remedy lies in her own hands, but an all consuming passion for crochet or studying Ancient Greek is unlikely to appear overnight.
Sixty is the age when most women are coming to the end of child care and paid employment, and find a whole new world available for the retired. But one has to want to take advantage of increased leisure time, which OP has in plenty. but at present she lacks motivation, which may be because of comfortable dependence on her husband to make all the decisions.
Up to her to shape her life, and she has a great many advantages to start from.

👏👏👏
No more to be said Easybee - to me it seems OP is bored - I would not wish misfortune on anybody but sometimes you need a few rocks along the way to be grateful for the smooth bits.

An excellent, insightful summary easybee. Definitely the best response of the whole thread.

eazybee

I would agree: what IS is the problem?
Char has a very comfortable lifestyle which she admits she enjoys; is comfortably off with interesting outings and activities to entertain her; a close family and grandchildren nearby; no apparent financial or health worries, simply a traditional, conservative husband with a strong sense of responsibility for his family and a generous nature who is NOT coercive and controlling but possibly somewhat autocratic and on occasion slightly overbearing.
I feel rather sorry for this man, whom I imagine would be shattered to learn he was being discussed by a group of unknown women and labelled a coercive, controlling alpha male on the basis of a few ill-thought out comments by his dearly loved wife.
What appears to be missing from the OP's life is any real sense of purpose; she appears to lack interests of her own, no close friendships, activities and pursuits she initiates, simply a passive attitude and an increasing sense of dissatisfaction.

The remedy lies in her own hands, but an all consuming passion for crochet or studying Ancient Greek is unlikely to appear overnight.
Sixty is the age when most women are coming to the end of child care and paid employment, and find a whole new world available for the retired. But one has to want to take advantage of increased leisure time, which OP has in plenty. but at present she lacks motivation, which may be because of comfortable dependence on her husband to make all the decisions.
Up to her to shape her life, and she has a great many advantages to start from.

Thanks eazybee for your post. I do feel sorry for DH and guilty about the post as he would be shattered if he knew I'd written It (how you describe hi is spot on) which is perhaps why i have rowed back n some things as @Silverbooks says. As others have said your post is very true @RosieandherMaw to be fair I don't think I'm bored what with the grandchildren and what not but maybe need a hobby. Thanks anyway.

I agree with eazybee. Most of us would drift into walking over someone, if they never did anything to assert themselves.

My goodness eazybee. It was OP who labelled him an alpha male and anybody who bothers to read the Police and CPS definitions of CCB would see that there is CCB. Did you bother?

I made it clear upthread that, from what has been described here, it wouldn’t meet the threshold for prosecution. But if someone drives at 31mph in a 30mph speed zone they are still speeding.

Why are you criticising people who have taken the time and trouble to reply to a women who cried Help and says she dreads the future? You are defending a man you don’t know and claiming that OP’s opening post was ill-thought out. Maybe it was since she has been rowing back but I framed my replies based on what she wrote before she started rowing. There must have been some reason why she wote in that impassioned and very detailed way.

Do you really think that, after 35 years of this, that crochet is the answer?

I agree that OP appears to live thorough her husband but does say she has some friends of her own that her husband “doesn’t mind her seeing”. How generous of him.

I do wonder if we have a generational divide in the comments here. I often have the impression that though this is a forum for people age 50 and over, the majority of regular contributors are a good 25-30 years older, That’s a whole generation and one which may have attitudes that are more conservative about the roles in a marriage. After all, it is people age 70 or over who solidly vote Conservative (and increasingly Reform), regressive parties which don’t want things to change.

I find it quite shocking that some have described this man as a diamond. Why? Just because he’s made a lot of money and bought a big house? Shall we call Trump and Musk diamonds too?

In the years leading up to 1937 and the new Matrimonial Causes Act when judges were considering the extended grounds for divorce, the most contentious ground was cruelty. The other three were matters of “fact”; adultery, desertion and insanity if declared by a medical professional. Cruelty was considered subjective. What one person regarded as cruel, another might not. Some judges argued that there should be different thresholds for cruelty depending on social class. Some judges opined that working class people enjoyed being cruel to one another. Most argued that men of all classes had a right to control their wives in the home. They discussed how that control might be achieved and when it would constitute cruelty.

The point I am trying to make is that these men deliberating in the 1930s, and they were all men, grew up in the Victorian era and had Victorian attitudes about social class and the position of men and women in a household. There was no doubt that wives were seen as subservient.

And that’s what I see here. Victorian attitudes both in the husband and some of the responses. Women should find a hobby to distract them from a controlling husband. Someone upthread said OP should go and find a room to hide in. For goodness sake.

The man is 73 but OP is only 60. She isn’t even statutory retirement age. By the time she is, he’ll be 80. That’s a big age gap. Age gaps which may not have seemed so huge when younger, can seem much more so as we age not just physically but in attitude. As many have attested here in the past, the older a man gets the more difficult he can become (and women too).

OP, you have made it clear you do not want a divorce saying it would be your worse fear but you haven’t said why. What are you frightened of? You are effectively saying that you fear (dread) the future with him and you fear a future without him. There is something very wrong here but now you are rowing back and defending him, only you can know what that is.

There’s probably little point in continuing to flog this here on a board where people are in strong disagreement and giving conflicting advice on limited and now conflicting information.

If you have the means to seek professional counselling without him knowing and making a song and dance about it, I think that would be your best bet. You wouldn’t have posted in the first place if something wasn’t wrong.

OP, you have made it clear you do not want a divorce saying it would be your worse fear but you haven’t said why. What are you frightened of?

Perhaps turn your dilemma? Life is short-- step into your own happiness.

I agree with eazybee's post - not all but in essence.

I will repeat - we only have one side of the story.
When people retire adjustment can be difficult, it is an enormous upheaval in many cases. If one half of the partnership has been accustomed to different expectations over the years, in this case *Char65's husband, they might be astonished to find their partner's expectations are suddenly quite different from those she has happily accepted for years.

It could be a turbulent time for a while while you both adjust but it's worth a try imo.

I don't think diagnosing coercive control from just reading an online perspective of a marriage from one partner's point of view is necessarily helpful.

Allira

I agree with eazybee's post - not all but in essence.

I will repeat - we only have one side of the story.
When people retire adjustment can be difficult, it is an enormous upheaval in many cases. If one half of the partnership has been accustomed to different expectations over the years, in this case *Char65's husband, they might be astonished to find their partner's expectations are suddenly quite different from those she has happily accepted for years.

It could be a turbulent time for a while while you both adjust but it's worth a try imo.

I don't think diagnosing coercive control from just reading an online perspective of a marriage from one partner's point of view is necessarily helpful.

Particularly as I have repeatly said I do not believe there is is coercive control!!! . I'm happy to go with go with eazybee's
possibly somewhat autocratic and on occasion slightly overbearing.
description of my DH!!

I've been following this thread with interest and some concern at Char's request for "Help!"
I can see, from what she tells us, that Char is used to putting her husband's needs and wishes first and her own last; she's a compliant partner in the marriage. It seems to me as though she can never truly relax.

"if I stand up to him and argue we can be at loggerheads for days so I tend to just do what he wants"
"He ... gets shirty and annoyed."
I feel I’m treading on eggshells around him."

All I'd add to the advice already given is that Char might think about having a bit more of her own life, whether it's a hobby or part-time job outside the house, to help her to think clearly and relax. A job would be better and she might be able to save some of her own money. Then, at some point in the future, if she decides she needs or wants to leave, the money and job would help make it possible. But that's entirely her choice. I think she'll know if/when the time comes.