DIL here, perspective please with strained relationship with MIL.

Surreysister1466

Doodledog

Live and let live works both ways

Indeed it does. What you have here is a situation involving you, your son, your husband and your MIL, with your FIL superficially involved. The baby won't care at this stage, but out of the others, who is happy?

My guess is not your husband or your MIL, and your FIL would, presumably, prefer things to be on an even keel with his wife and son, which leaves you. Are you happy with how things are? If so, you don't need any of us to support you, and if not, all you need to do is take your own advice and live and let live.

That assumes harmony is the responsibility of the person setting boundaries rather than the person whose behaviour caused the problem. “Live and let live” doesn’t mean one person swallowing discomfort so others can stay comfortable. And framing it as a happiness tally, as if women should measure themselves by how content others are, is exactly the outdated thinking being challenged here.

Where did I say you should measure yourself by how content others are?

You are the one out of step with the others, I assume? If that assumption were wrong, you wouldn't be posting on here, for support (or is entertainment your motive 🤔), as you would have the support of the rest of your family. That would be the case regardless of your sex, regardless of whether your adversary were male or female, or if your child's other parent were a woman too.

Obviously, and rightly, you will do as you think best, but you came here supposedly asking for opinions, but have argued with anyone who has not said how considered and reasonable you are. What was the point?

Petra I never said the OP did. I said if I was threatened with not seeing my Grandchildren I would not put up with this behaviour. I was talking about me, and how I feel about things. Read my thread at 20. 52.
Lots of Grans have said in other threads this has happened.
It's all in your head. Don't be bloody rude.

Smileless2012

Unless I'm mistaken Surreysister, you've made the decision to not see your in laws and your husband will continue to see his parents and enable them to see their GS, so I don't understand why you've mentioned swallowing discomfort so others can stay comfortable.

It's a sensible solution to the problem.

Yes it is, and if I was the MIL it would be preferable to me.

I can empathise with you , I married my husband 15 years ago . We were both in our early 40's and had teenage children from previous marriages .His parents seemed ok at first . However as time went on it was clear his mother called the shots . He's an only child and they had him late in life . He's always done what his mother wanted. She's rearranged our Christmas arrangements and wants to be involved with all aspects of our life together. My own parents weren't like that , if I say anything my husband sides with her . So now , I don't see her at all. He goes every Sunday since her husband died last year . We don't even discuss her , You'll never win with her , you have a right to your own peace

Doodledog

You didn’t have to say it explicitly, it was implied by reframing the issue as who is or isn’t happy, and by suggesting that being “out of step” is itself the problem. That places the burden on the person raising concerns to restore comfort for everyone else.

For clarity, I do have the support of my family, my husband included. Posting here doesn’t indicate lack of support, it reflects a willingness to discuss and to try and understand, quite a few posters have helped me with that. However asking for opinions doesn’t mean accepting mischaracterisations, insults or wrong assumptions without challenge. Disagreement isn’t “arguing for entertainment”, it’s engagement.

Hoping the MiL.in question isn't on Gransnet.

Smileless2012

Unless I'm mistaken Surreysister, you've made the decision to not see your in laws and your husband will continue to see his parents and enable them to see their GS, so I don't understand why you've mentioned swallowing discomfort so others can stay comfortable.

It's a sensible solution to the problem.

Your husband seeing his parents should work, assuming he is not pressured to more visits post baby to pre baby normal. You won't be swallowing discomfort as you will be on your own.

I've not found how often he visited prior to baby, perhaps less is better.

OP says she's supporting MIL seeing the baby but it hasn't happened for four months. Four months is a big chunk of babies life. Doesn't sound very supportive.

Norah.

Yes i agree, at this moment in time its the best way forward and thats what is happening. We saw them maybe every 2 months, where funnily enough i would encourage husband to invite them over and i would cook for them.

Debbi58

I can empathise with you , I married my husband 15 years ago . We were both in our early 40's and had teenage children from previous marriages .His parents seemed ok at first . However as time went on it was clear his mother called the shots . He's an only child and they had him late in life . He's always done what his mother wanted. She's rearranged our Christmas arrangements and wants to be involved with all aspects of our life together. My own parents weren't like that , if I say anything my husband sides with her . So now , I don't see her at all. He goes every Sunday since her husband died last year . We don't even discuss her , You'll never win with her , you have a right to your own peace

Sorry you went through this too, and without the support of your husband, but glad you have your peace.

theworriedwell

OP says she's supporting MIL seeing the baby but it hasn't happened for four months. Four months is a big chunk of babies life. Doesn't sound very supportive.

Would you suggest additional visits are necessary?

Seems a war zone to me, I'd prefer least visits possible.

Quarterly should be plenty.

When we marry we join a wider family. These are people we do not know whose style and traditions and opinions might be very different from ours. But for the sake of everyone .. and in the interest of simple good manners .. we mostly just rub along together.
Unless your MIL has committed serious abuse of you then I think that you need to go with the flow a bit.
Sitting her down and listing the faults and misdemeanours that you perceive was to my mind unwise and presumptuous of you ... presumably she could have found a list for you had she wished.
Becoming a good MIL is a learning process.
I think you have burned your bridges as far as establishing a relationship with her now. Your OH is stuck with this uncomfortable piggy-in-the-middle role; your son is learning disrespect for others and those older than him and sadly you might reap the consequences of that one day.
My PIL were seriously nuts, held opposite political views to me and were generally not a great blessing in my life, but I never criticised them and treated them with good manners. It did me no harm to do this and I am resaping the rewards of having AC who treat me and their ILs with kindness and respect. I am proud of them for this.
I always think it is important to remember that people cannot always live up to our hopes of them.

Surreysister1466

@rafi

I don’t think anyone is calling all older women jealous or bitter — if that doesn’t apply to you, then it isn’t about you. But saying “I’d show them the door” kind of proves the point being made. Many women were expected to stay silent and accept things for the sake of peace, and it explains why speaking up now is often seen as rude or demanding. Acknowledging that isn’t patronising, it’s recognising that standards have changed. Live and let live works both ways.

You are expecting your MIL to stay silent and accept things fir the sake of peace and when she speaks up you consider her rude and demanding.

A lot of double standards going on here. Or is it that those rights just belong to your generation?

I’d quite like your view on expecting a husband to support someone openly criticising his wife.

i think youve missed the mark here, you should read the thread.

My mil never liked me right to her dying breath. I just simply married her only child in our teens. Snide comments every time we met which was oh so frequent. I developed a tougher layer because she loved her son and she simply adored our kids and they her. Her nastiness went over the kids heads for years and then when they realised what was actually being said they defended me. Didn’t make a bit of difference though she was who she was,to me anyway. I am a mil now twice over and we all get on. At least I think we do!!!

She sounds quite an unpleasant lady. Keep your distance. Let your husband visit with your son. And you can have a day off!

You sound very entitled surreysister1466

Surreysister1466

Doodledog

You didn’t have to say it explicitly, it was implied by reframing the issue as who is or isn’t happy, and by suggesting that being “out of step” is itself the problem. That places the burden on the person raising concerns to restore comfort for everyone else.

For clarity, I do have the support of my family, my husband included. Posting here doesn’t indicate lack of support, it reflects a willingness to discuss and to try and understand, quite a few posters have helped me with that. However asking for opinions doesn’t mean accepting mischaracterisations, insults or wrong assumptions without challenge. Disagreement isn’t “arguing for entertainment”, it’s engagement.

Ok, but you are the one bringing sex into it. As I say, my point has nothing to do with women being responsible for anything - that is 100% coming from you.

Also, as a ‘gentle and non-confrontational’ person, you might want to think about why you have come onto a discussion board for older people and then said that people disagreeing with you have ‘dated’ views. I keep asking, but what did you hope to achieve?

It may be the case that your MIL is a passive aggressive nightmare. It may be that she’s long-suffering and at the end of her tether. We have only heard your side of the story so we just don’t know.

What we do know is what you’ve posted, which suggests that you want to ride roughshod over anyone who disagrees with your perspective, that you are willing to use lazy generalisations to dismiss alternative perspectives and that you are not ‘engaging’ at all in any meaningful way. Crack on though. As you are aware, you have all the cards for now, so you won’t be the one getting hurt. Just remember that if your husband can turn on his mother he can turn on you, and that your son is absorbing your attitude to dealing with the older generation (which you are to him).

Good luck.

For clarity, I do have the support of my family, my husband included

That is good. Probsbly makees my earlier post irrelevant!

Silvershadow, I agree with what you have said. I am suspicious about this post; these posts about difficulties with mother-in-laws usually start with sugary-sweet daughters -in-laws asking for advice then denigrate into an ever increasing list of MIL's failings
This post seems a triumphant account of how a new grandmother has had access to her grandson severely restricted, as payback for a string of perceived insults, and her refusal to apologise for them.
I wondered if it was a reverse post from a grandmother detailing her treatment from her daughter in law, or simply someone laughing at the concern expressed by posters with dated views.
Whatever it is, the poster is revealing herself through every defensive post as an unpleasant individual who rejoices in other's discomfiture, either imaginary or real.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Not with these at the end.

eazybee- but grandmother has not had access to her grandchildren "severely restricted" as you state.

MIL took it upon herself from birth to dictate frequency of visits, ie once a week when GS was first born- somewhat overbearing, demanding and not sustainable as they live a couple of hours apart. When poster's husband went back to work she was finding once a week visits too much- entirely understandable. It is entirely acceptable for son and DIL to decide frequency of visits to their own home, ie a frequency in their family's best interests. Poster and husband together decided their own ground rules- healthy and acceptable behaviour.

Grandson is now 1- 4 months ago there was the "conversation' with MIL that led to hurt feelings, clearly on both sides. During that 4 months the poster supports her husband visiting his parents taking GC with him- so contact with GPs continues. Very unfair therefore to say access has been "severely restricted" plus inferring that poster is to blame for that. Father of GC works full time, thus has limited free time, is an adult and can decide for himself how often he visits his parents.

Currently poster is dealing with her hurt feelings and asks for perspectives which she is getting. Responses and perspectives vary a great deal- not a surprise the MIL/DIL can de difficult and shifts when a new GC is born and at a time mother of said GC is adjusting to motherhood, all that entails and possible hormonal/ post natal changes. Poster has said she may wish to reconcile in the future but not right at the moment.

Yes of course there are 2 sides to the story- as always- I'm sure even the poster is aware of that. But like all posters she is entitled to post the situation from her understanding and perspective. She has asked for our perspective. If you disagree with her stance and feel that you are on MIL's "side" you are forming that view without having heard from MIL either, which we are not going to get. Relationship repair/reconciliation doesn't depend on "taking sides" but trying to develop insight and understanding, as far as possible with all parties.

By all means try and help poster see things from your different perspective, ie MIL's perspective that you can speculate on (but do not know) - poster has asked for that. I would imagine poster is more likely to take on board difficult to hear, alternative to her current understanding perspectives if they are framed in none judgmental language.

Too busy to reply to yet another of your very lengthy deliberations; will find time later.

Surreysister without getting further embroiled, you sound very much like a woman more than able to stand her ground and say what she is or isn’t happy with, and your MiL sounds like a woman equally able to do the same.
So would go with the plan to just let your DH visit your MiL with your child and let enough time pass before either if you get together again and then make sure it is on neutral ground and for as brief a spell as usual.
Tbh I feel sorry for your DH and FiL.