Faith schools?

Hypocrisy and religion, Annobel? Perish the thought.

While I am not now affiliated with any religious group, I was brought up as a Christian and still find comfort in the services, esp in the music. Have just tried Google to find the source of a quote from an aetheist who was asked why he still participated in C of E services. "I believe in the rituals of my tribe," he explained. Works for me!

I think Eire may be very different from England! I was not indoctrinated by either school!
Funnily enough I was a governer of a local C of E school for a couple of years and found the information on other faiths, both impartial and informative. I actually donated some items to their comprehensive collection of artefacts used by other faiths from my collection!
Faith schools do have a lot to offer! I think that to condemn them out of hand is showing bigotry! At the end of the day it is the parents right and choice as to how THEIR children should be educated!
Is this not what democracy and freedom of choice is all about?

Well said, Jeni

Yes, faith schools do have a lot to offer. So do fee paying schools, grammar schools and comprehensives in wealthy middle class areas. But many schools in this country fail the children who are forced, through having no other option, to attend them (it's not a question of parental choice - few parents actively choose to send their children to poor schools). Since the founder of Christianity concerned himself with the downtrodden and despised of society, I find it somewhat ironic that Christianity has now become in many respects (including faith schools) an upholder and perpetuator of social division and inequality. For many people, faith schools are just another route in the scramble for good education.

As I said above in London most faith schools are almost completely black and ethnic minority. The white middle class parents aren't pushing to get their children in them even if they live on the doorstep.

The Church of England has been described as The Conservative Party at Prayer.
I am all for parental choice, but in pratice only those parents wealthy or determined enough have a choice of schools. For the rest, it is the local comp.
I do not see what schools of a particular denomination have to offer that they would not offer if they were secular. I think it is imperative that children are taught about the various world religions and philosophies, ,but that should be an academic study and does not need to be done with a smattering of services and rituals - especially as we know that many parents have lied to get their children into these highly selective schools.
It is claimed that many faith schools are not exclusive and accept children of all faiths or none. If so, what happens to these outsiders during RE lessons/indoctrination? Are they still left to their own devices in the library?

Nsube In Hammersmith & Fulham, Lady Margaret (C of E) and Sacred Heart (RC) are both heavily over-subscribed girls' schools.

Re drugs: I think (I may be wrong) it was the church that designated certain drugs as immoral?

C of E Board of Social Responsibility made a submission in 2001 to decriminalise cannabis and they do some good work with addicts.
Catholic attitude is a bit unclear - taking drugs is not in itself immoral but it can become sinful in various circumstances.
Most priests I have known have been smokers and drinkers.

You are so right. Have you any idea how many cocktails are named after men of the cloth Greatnan? Bishop, Piscy Bishop, Parish Priest and Curate's Egg to name but a few.

Not to mention the Smugglers' Song:

Brandy for the parson, baccy for the clerk.

I did know one revver who was into the occasional spliff, but I would guess that if there are others, they would keep a low profile.

could it be that there is a little more discipline in faith schools?

Probably, but it is much easier to impose discipline on children who come predominantly from well-organised homes with committed parents. The cycle is : school gets good reputation because parents believe church schools are better, , therefore attracts determined parents, parents ensure attendance, homework, etc. school gets good stats, gets even better reputation, attracts more parents................now try that in reverse.

positive feedback (or is it negative?)

Spot on, greatnan. Children learn (or don't learn) discipline at home before they ever go to school.

I'm very encouraged by the reaction to my opening the subject. We can't escape our culture, but we don't have to follow it to the letter As soon as we start to look at what religion, of whatever colour, says about drugs, abortion, contraception, sex or whatever we are on shaky ground. Why can't we trust ourselves to reach the right direction without reference to the dictates of some external, invisible being, or those in whose hands is the interpretation of the "revelations" of this being. So often this is an exercise of power - nothing less.

Yes, religion has historically been a great way of controlling the masses - scare them into submission by threats of eternal agony and tell them to accept their lot in life because it will all be worth while when they are dead.
I have tried for years to pin down Christians as to what they actually believe, but I have only ever got vague platitudes about there being a loving god - no amount of suffering, natural disasters, disease, etc. can shake this belief - although I did read one one woman vicar who gave up on god when her child was murdered.
I heard Thora Hird waxing lyrical once on the radio - how could anybody not believe in a good god when she had seen the spring flowers, the little lambs, etc. Perhaps if she had travelled to work past an Indian rubbish tip she would have had a different perspective.

I wish people would stop using the cuddly word 'faith' in this context. What they are is Sectarian Schools.

I agree, feetlebaum.

There's a surprise.

Where? Where!?

Just jingle having her usual pop at me, feetlebaum - water off a duck's back!

Gracesmum asks when Church schools were renamed as "faith " schools...

Presumably when it was realized that Jewish schools and Muslim schools, among others don't have any use for churches.

"at the other end of the spectrum our little village school which is a C of E school where the children are happy, well-adjusted and have lots of fun in their learning."

Very nice - worth excluding all those children from non-Christian parents - although of course those same parents contribute to the funding of the C of E school...

I totally agree baba. Look at places like Glasgow and Belfast.

The concept of choice is a fallacy. For most, there is no choice.
We of course sent our kids to the local primary school as we lived in a rural area. I had NO idea that it was a C of E school - and that the Vicar would be allowed to tell my 5 year old that we the parents wouldn't be as cruel as to not have had her baptised, as we would have condemned her to not being to access Heaven should she die. We had tears and nightmares for months!

The fact is that once the most influential, powerful and outspoken parents are able to opt out - they just do not care about the rest of education.
Where I was brought up, there were NO private schools, so those parents fought to keep standards high FOR ALL, irrespective of finances, influence or religion. We all benefited so much from sharing our education with all sections of the population, rather than being segregated along class or religious lines.