Who is God?

In that case Absent perhaps you would show me where I have made such accusations.

I could give you examples of people talking about their good works but don't want to be personal which I would have to be if I did so.

I am sorry you are so angry, please re-read my post and see if you can still understand why it has upset you so much.

Mamie I couldn't agree more!

No, Alison, we do not 'all know that they are there'. Either have the courage to say exactly which posts you mean or withdraw your allegations.
And why would it need a Christian mother to have another Down's baby? I think you need to read your posts carefully and consider what you are saying. The implication is that atheist parents do not welcome a Down's baby.

AlisonMA I suggest that you, too, should carefully read posts before you reply to them.

• I suggested that those Christians who claim that suffering is a blessing from god – such as the last Pope – had probably never endured suffering. I was not referring to all Christians, some of whom will, of course, have suffered. I am not mathematically challenged. (Does that last sentence constitute boasting about my abilities?)

• I am fully aware of what you said. You did not say that Christians suffer more than anyone else and nor did I accuse you of saying that. You referred to Christians suffering in silence and I pointed out that it is likely that they complain about their suffering just as much as any other group of people. Some – religious or not – are stoical and some are not.

• You have opted for the Tony Blair defence – defend your comments against accusations that were never made in the first place while ignoring what was really said.

I think there are some quite clever and well "qualified" people on GN. It distinguishes this website from Grannynet.

You can usually tell who those people really are.

I am not going to respond to these, they are personal and this is not the GN is supposed to be. People are reading into my posts things which are not there and I feel ganged up upon.

I'm not ganging up on you Alison!

Don't let it get to you. You become immune after a while.

I don't believe suffering is sent by God. It's just that He hasn't got it right yet. That's why he gives research scientists/doctors excellent brains. We have to do some of the work for Him.

I am not reading anything into your posts that you did not actually say AlisonMA. I am sorry that you feel "ganged up upon", so that would be me and …?

Join the club, Alison, I have been accused, obliquely, of all kinds of nasty characteristics and I have not complained but enough is enough. You can't expect to get away with your continual innuendos about people being superior, arrogant, bullying, etc. without being challenged to produce proof.

Thanks JO4 for your kindness. I doubt if I will become immune, it keeps happening to me. I assume everyone is nice and then my illusions are shattered - again. I stand up for those I feel have been wronged and get stuff thrown at me because I did. However, I look at myself in the mirror each morning and know I have clear conscience. Been going on all my life.

J'accuse AlisonMA!

Do you know, proud atheist though I am, I think I could "find god" (does it matter which one? Would Athena do, for instance?) if it meant I got let off a death sentence. I don't suppose her release had anything to do with her lawyer or her country's embassy appealing on her behalf? No, that would be a cynical thought. [sarc emoticon]

Maybe God worked through her lawyer or embassy.

This is why I detest religions, they invariably cause argument and bitterness.

That's not the religions fault.

jings, and [sigh]

jings and [sigh]

Gramps....Vamps is fine. It's just one of my peculiarities (of which I have many) to not like Vampy

Mamie,I'm sure you're right about us never agreeing on matters of religion and politics, but if we did we wouldn't have these lively debates.

No problem with the debates, Lily - I enjoy them and don't wish to interfere with anybody else's faith.

But isn't there a difference between lively debate and people attacking one another? Which is what always happens when religion is the topic.

No problem with debate. But there's a difference between constructive and destructive.,

Absolutely * Ariadne* - your post and mine crossed in hyperspace.

It need not happen, if people could accept that criticism of a religion is not criticism of its adherents.