Who is God?

It's the way it's expressed.

Go on then, jingle, tell us which bit of expression you don't like.

J04's comment about my minister neighbour's cop-out reply couldn't be further form the truth. What he meant was that it was down to the individual how they perceived what may happen to us all 'afterwards', and whether or not the way they lived may just not so much make a difference to that, but may make us feel more comfortable with ourselves by doing the best we can without harming anyone on the way.
I cannot ever come to terms with the attitude that because a person has Down's Syndrome or any other disability, that that person is 'special'. They are not special. They are people who do not need to feel patronised.

Quite so, Marelli.

Would it not make things easier if we all accepted that we may well find the 'way' a thought or belief that is different from our own is expressed somewhat troubling? It's so easy to take offence where no offence is meant. Perhaps if we all bore in mind that offence is in nearly all cases (certainly on gransnet) not meant (only strong feelings, deeply held beliefs, powerful thoughts) things would chug along better.

To put it another way, shouldn't we just accept that people have a right to express views on things they feel strongly about in strong, but inoffensive language? In short, that it's OK to say this or that view is ridiculous if that's what you think. It doesn't, after all, make the view ridiculous if it isn't, so why take offence?

But Greatnan it's the adherents that are often the problem. I wonder how many 'founders' of religions such as Jesus, Mohammed, Budha, etc would agree with the way their philosophies have been interpreted or even twisted?

I think it is reasonable to take offence if the comment is personal. I thought this was not allowed on GN. It might also be helpful if people read the actual post, not their interpretation of it.

Marelli I hope you don't think I used the word "special" in any unpleasant way! I am going mainly on a particular young woman who attends my daughter's church. She is so friendly and affectionate.

I do think a Downs syndrome person may need a bit more care than others. Is that patronising? It's certainly not meant to be.

And I still think that is a cop-out, especially for a minister!

AlisonMA This is notpersonal; it is all published on this thread.

"It is noticable [sic] that some GNs do a lot of talking about how brilliant/good/clever they are but this is not something Christians tend to do."
29/08/2012 10:50:47

"I assume everyone is nice and then my illusions are shattered – again. I stand up for those I feel have been wronged and get stuff thrown at me because I did. However, I look at myself in the mirror each morning and know I have clear conscience. Been going on all my life."
29/08/2012 14:26:01

Some GNs do a lot of talking about how brilliant/good/clever they are … Blowing your own trumpet. J'accuse.

That is fine with me, Bags - I don't mind what people say about my beliefs or ideas, as long as they don't make thinly -veiled comments on my personality!

Alright Bags. How about when you bring up that weird "monster" thingie that you sometimes speak of, and seem to present it as an alternative religion. How could that not be taken as offensive.

You know quite well that you and others on here often have a ball being offensive about religion.

Bags is entitled to believe in any entity she chooses. A bit of humour is surely not offensive?

There is nothing humourous about the way it is put over. Only to a small circle of like minded posters. with no concern for anyone else's feelings.

Greatnan perhaps there are no 'veiled comments' on your personality, I haven't seen any. I think you may be reading things where they do not exist.

I've no doubt the private messages are now flying!

JO4 I know exactly where you are coming from. I've said it before and I know it didn't go down well, but a little more sensitivity to other people's feelings might make things so much better and avoid all this nastiness.

I agree, Alison. But if someone tells me that my belief that rain falls from the sky because god wants it to is ridiculous and that they hold that view because there are much more easily believable scientific explanations for rain which don't involve gods, that is not personal. It's my belief that is being "attacked", not me.

J04, I know you didn't mean to sound patronising. The thing is, even these days, when there's a greater awareness of people whose needs are 'different' (note I didn't use the term 'special needs'?) well-meaning people can be quite patronising...'does he take sugar?' etc. Anyway, this is really getting away from the original thread!

Bags I am not talking about that sort of thing. Look back a bit and you will see a personal attack. Beliefs which differ from one's own are quite acceptable. Being unpleasant and inventing things to criticise which were not in the post referred to is an entirely different matter.

Alison, when I challenged you to say if your nasty comments referred to me, your reply was 'If the cap fits'.
As a matter of fact, the cap does not fit and I am still waiting for anyone to point to a post where I have been personally rude or offensive. Disagreeing with somebody's ideas or beliefs is neither.

As the Dragons say "I'm out" ... .

What's offensive about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It's a piss-take, that's all.

Marelli I don't think JO4 sounded patronising and I don't think anyone has been patronising about 'different' people. Have I missed something? Its quite possible with all the to-ing and fro-ing. And no, don't mistunderstand me, I'm not having a go, just asking a question!

Exactly.