And while we're on the subject

No, johanna the belief is just absent.

johanna, I prefer to call myself a humanist for that reason. I do think 'atheist' has negative connotations.

And, I would add that many who could be called idealists are also humanists.

What are the negative connotations of atheist? I suppose the word does have a cold unspiritual feel about it.

But agnostic doesn't seem quite right either.

It doesn't have any negative connotations for me. It just means I don't believe in any gods. Nothing emotional about it.

I don't think there is anything negative about the word atheist, quite the contrary in fact. I've heard people say that they're not sure about whether they believe in god, that perhaps they are more 'spiritual' than religious, whereas I'm able to be very clear in saying that I am an atheist. I don't think it requires any explanation.

All I mean by 'negative connotations' is that by describing yourself as 'atheist' you are saying what you don't believe. 'Agnostic' means you are sitting on the fence.
Roughly speaking, the word 'humanist' has come to mean someone who:

trusts to the scientific method when it comes to understanding how the universe works and rejects the idea of the supernatural (and is therefore an atheist or agnostic)

makes their ethical decisions based on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings and other sentient animals

believes that, in the absence of an afterlife and any discernible purpose to the universe, human beings can act to give their own lives meaning by seeking happiness in this life and helping others to do the same.

(plagiarised from www.humanism.org.uk/humanism)

As I have said before, humanists are atheists; not all atheists are humanists. Stalin, for example, could hardly be called humanist and the atheism of his system was cold, hard, inhumane.

My sentiments entirely - I met some lovely people at the Wirral Humanist Group. We had a meeting with our then MP, David (now Lord) Hunt , to object to our children being left with no teaching in a separate room if we withdrew them from RE. He told us we could not possibly be giving our children good morals if we were not Christians. He was so stupid, it was really quite amusing.

Atheism is, perfectly simply, lack of belief in gods.

Opposite of theism.

The negative part is the lack of, so it's purely a descriptive negative. Doesn't bother me.

If people read in unpleasant connotations of their own because they fear a lack of gods, that's their problem, not mine. The word, and its meaning, are perfectly clear and perfectly simple.

One of my main objections to organised religion is the emphasis on 'getting right with God' rather than on 'doing God's work'. Endless hours, sometimes whole lifetimes, are spent in prayer, worship, study and debate. Resources are used eg to build great mosques, cathedrals to the Glory of God rather than devoting the time, money and effort towards building something useful to mankind. As a teenager, I rejected organised religion as being a waste of my time, made a big public statement to our new minister that I felt it was much more useful to be helping to run the Youth Club than to spend my evenings in his Bible Study Group.

A few years later I came to the conclusion that there was no God and even if there were he was literally 'not worth the candle'. My earthly Father would have given his life or moved heaven and earth for his daughters (and his many friends) whereas the so-called all powerful God did nothing to help at all.

I have really not thought deeply about these matters - just got on with my life, trying to do some good and no evil, until the threads here have prompted me to read up on atheism, humanism, agnosticism, secularism. This study has brought me back to my starting point - the waste of Endless hours, sometimes whole lifetimes, are spent in prayer, worship, study and debate. The range of isms that have been discussed on these thresd and I have been reading about, bear a remarkable similarity to the religions which they purport to disdain. Same holy men (Dawkinsism anyone?) holy books (required reading for adherents to any of the isms), same schisms between different factions, same claims that this that or the other belief system is correct.

I understand that some? many? people have a need to belong (cf Claire Rayner saying she felt a sense of 'coming home' when she joined the Humanist Society) but I am so disappointed that the mass rejection of religion currently taking place appears to be leading to the formation of formal groupings and sub groupings, based on narrow definitions. Personally, I feel no need to attach a label to myself, or align with any group. I do not need any 'great thinker' to instruct me in how to think for myself - I consider myself to be the expert in matters pertaining to my own thoughts, values, decisions. Thus I have no one else to blame, but also no one else to answer to. I find I am quite a hard taskmaster, but only for myself, I will forgive others almost everything.

Here endeth my sermon!! I feel I have wasted enough of my energies in pursuing this topic for the time being and have a backlog of other things to think about .

I do like that post, Granny23!

Hear, Hear Granny23

Granny23 Brilliantly put! I totally agree with you.

As an aside, I notice that no one has mentioned the report in the press that 'Jesus was married!!'

I saw that report yesterday, and today it is claimed that the papyrus is fake. Let's see what tomorrow brings

granny23 Hear hear! I like what you are saying too.

Wasn't that in The Da Vinci Code? We all know that it was based on sound factual information, don't we?

Does it matter if Jesus was married?

Christians don't like to think that Jesus was married so it must matter somehow.

Petallus which Christians?

I would say that piece of papyrus looks uncommonly neat and clearly written to be that old. It has been cut or torn into a near-perfect rectangle with no chewed corners or insect holes, and the fact of the fragment happening to contain the magic words "My wife says..." is suspiciously fortuitous.

Dan Brown has a lot to answer for.

Here is a link. www.euronews.com/2012/09/19/papyrus-fragment-suggests-jesus-married/

Granny23 Wonderful. I do admire your clear and straightforward post. Thank you!

Sounds like the beginning of another Turin Shroud situation!

Granny23 very well put

There is another School of Thought that suggests that Jesus was taken by his friends, secretly to another country, possibly here, in the UK.

I'm only saying that this I read some years ago. Can't remember where I read it!