Christian Grans

Some of the feminists I have known would glory in the name of militancy.

Life, strife, these two are one!
Naught can ye win but by faith and daring;
On, on that ye have done,
But for the work of today preparing.
Firm in reliance, laugh a defiance
(Laugh in hope for sure is the end)
March, march, many as one,
Shoulder to shoulder and friend to friend!

Looks pretty militant to me (from March of the Women, suffragette anthem). Although I go with Chambers and with *Petallus' on the definition. I started posting on GN because I was perturbed to see what I thought was a misrepresentation of faith by a number of posters. I don't care if people are atheists, ancestor worshippers or Jedi Knights. All that concerns me is that Christianity should not be misrepresented on a public forum and I try to offer a Christian perspective.

Well said Lilygran

Each of us is unique. I am an atheist. I am a humanist. Buddhism is a philosophy that I understand. I am responsible for creating my own heaven and hell during my lifetime. Bags is blest with a keen interlect. She is eloquent and GN is all the richer for her well balanced input.

Just noticed when's comment 'easy assumption to make ana' which seems to suggest that my posts are often meant to stir things up. If that is what when meant I regard it as a personal insult to which I take exception.

That kind of remark is disempowering and meant to invalidate another's point of view.

I did not find it easy to stick my head above the parapet and make my remarks to lily guessing that it would draw hostile reactions but I do feel quite uncomfortable about the nature of some of the anti-Christian posts on this thread.

So, having said that, time to withdraw.

A 'militant atheist' must be one who dares to disagree with things said for centuries by the priesthood/rabbinate/imams/what have you. I've yet to see an atheist moved by hi/her atheism to fly a plane into a skyscraper...

A 'militant' atheist is possibly one that doesn't consider 'faith' to be a virtue, but an excuse not to think rationally, and dares to say so!

feetlebaum

In the 1930s the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR adopted violent methods to enforce their views. They killed those who did not agree with them. China does not have a good record either. Neither side of the debate can claim the moral high ground.

Oh - anyone can call themselves 'atheist' - and then go and fool about in politics... which in USSR was the case; they merely substituted the state for the deity and carried on regardless. Don't forget 'Uncle Joe' was seminary-trained... thugs are thugs whatever they call themselves.

I wouldn't say that anyone is being unduly 'militant' or 'aggressive' on either side of the discussion. Personal beliefs (or disbeliefs) are being stated and re-stated on several different threads. I have stated mine on some thread or other and have no intention of doing so again. Since there is so little common ground between the two sides, and there is no chance of either convincing the other, I can't be bothered flogging my own dead horse!

Yes but it was an atheist state, whatever their personal backgrounds, and the state oppressed and murdered people in the name of atheism. Just trying to present the opposite view.

I would love somebody to quote any posts where atheists have misrepresented Christianity. Vague allegations are not acceptable to me.
And clearly my oft-repeated explanation of exactly what it is about some religions that makes me hostile have not been understood, or I would not need to keep repeating them. I think I am the one banging my head against a brick wall!
My atheism has nothing whatsoever to do with my politics, so that is one red herring we can put in the bin
right away.
I am at a loss as to what the Christians expect of atheists. Should we pretend to believe in a god? Are we not entitled to express our non belief and our reasons for it without being vilified as militant and aggressive? For positively the last time -you can all believe what you like and I would defend your right to express your belief in any way you please - but I cannot refrain from criticising certain practices that cause untold pain and distress all over the world. Now, will you defend my right to hold my own views and express them?

I have been out since quite easily this morning and have just read through all the intervening posts to catch up. There's just one thing missing – a patronising post that tells us all to be sensitive to those who are easily intimidated, even frightened by bullying atheists* and to be nice to each other. [pink teddy bear emoticon]

* In fact, strong-minded posters on any subject. It just so happens that this thread is on the subject of Christianity, so atheists would be designated the bullies.

early, not easily.

I was going to ask about that, elf — about my use of the term religiacs. I use it because it's shorter than 'religious people'. I'm looking for a term that is the equivalent of atheist, but meaning religious person. Some people use "faithheads" but I thought that wouldn't be popular, so I used religiac instead, for brevity and ease of typing. No other reason. Happy to use a different abbreviation. Suggestions?

Would religio do?

feetlebaum, thank you for your remarks. They give me strength.

I agree with anno. I don't actually think anyone has been aggressive about theism or about atheism. But if I'm going to be called aggressive I need to find an acceptable meaning for that word — acceptable to me, I mean — a meaning which I can glory in. so I'm happy, as I said, with being energetic and wotnot. [wishes had more energy though, emoticon]

I suppose theist would do, would it?

absent, . Actually a throaty chuckle.

Thank you lilygran My original post was not meant to be provocative...just an observation...as you said I am new here and that was my first post. Joined Gransnet for the specific reason of finding fellow christian grans...how am I to meet fellow christians if I don't 'nail my colours to the mast'? But reading through the posts on the 'Religion and Spirituality' forum...which is a great misnomer if ever there was one as it is all anti religion and spirituality...I was sad to discover that christians were not welcomed at all. Though thank you to all those who have PM'd me with support but felt as christians they had to stay silent.

The word 'secular' when used by a christian means...'non christian'

What a pity your fellow Christians did not feel able to support you openly.
Surely the place to find other Christians would be on one of the Christian forums? This forum is for grandparents of all faiths and none.
Did you not expect that some of us would not be Christians, and would not be afraid to say so?

ElsieJoy Welcome to the forum and do continue to post your opinions.

I am sorry, but I still believe that to the majority of people "secular" means to do with that side of life which has no connection to religion - as in "rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's", not "not Christian" as in not believing in Christ.

Church management committees discuss a lot of secular things alongside religious ones - like what colour to paint the toilets in the church hall and whether to buy a new fridge or make do with the old one, or whether apple pie is a better choice of dessert for a social event than tiramisu. These questions have to be addressed by people of any faith or none, those discussing them are not "unchristian". Professionals who come to paint the said toilets or mend the fridge are there in a secular capacity, but may or may not be Christian themselves.

And if you see it as Christians not being welcomed at all on the forum, then I think you are being ultra-sensitive. It is rather that they are no more and no less welcome than non-christians. If you are looking for active discrimination for those with religious beliefs then you will be disappointed - those with and those without are equal. That is how it should be.

ElsieJoy How can you say that the Religion and Spirituality forum is all anti religion and spirituality. As an atheist, it saddens me to read that you've discovered that christians were not welcomed at all. Of course christians are welcome. The majority of my friends are God-fearing/loving christians. We've accepted each other's beliefs and, thankfully, as good and loyal friends, we will continue to do so without fear or rancour.

From Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll (who was a christian, I believe):

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

I have no idea how many Christians are members of this forum, but on this thread at least three people have said that they are Christians. Happily there have been four who have taken a much more conciliatory tone than some. And then there are the others contributers who take a very different position. The three who chose to 'support' Elsie Joy did so openly. I wouldn't call acknowledging one's Christianilty 'supporting' someone. Perhaps there are only three of us. I don't know. Perhaps others who do not have the benefit of 'a sharp intellect' prefer not to get involved or perhaps they feel that this sort of exchange is unhelpful to harmony.

I have started another thread and would welcome responses which seek as the title says to 'Find a way forward'.