Does anyone like or support face-covering (hijab or burka)??

I think we just need to be a bit careful about generalising about all Muslims. Bit like if we said all white men are drunken wife beaters. This full scale covering up relates to only a few nationalities.
Re education, their kids will go to school in UK. Gradually Uk culture will rub off.
In the school where I was gov for 10 years there was a big Bangladeshi contingent. Slowly attitudes are changing e.g. letting daughters go on field trips. A few girls have gone on to Uni. and professional qualifications. They are also getting more assertive. Gradually things are changing. One young woman I knew was a solicitor and married a Welsh man. I asked her if the family had a problem. She said no, her dad was fine because fiance had converted to islam and they were having a Muslim wedding. She was a bit worried that the methodist relatives would have a problem. Wedding went off fine apparently.

I had girl students at my last school in the UK who belonged to a very strict Christian brethren. They had to wear long skirts with long socks, long sleeves and a scarf- and were often teased. No problem has far as I was concerned re dress- but they also had to leave school after GCSE's which broke my heart.

Again, as far as my Muslim 6th Formers, the concept of all UK girls being 'free' seemed an anathema. Our girls are hugely influenced by the Press, especially some girl's/womens' magazines, TV, celebs, etc- on how they should behave, dress (or not dress) how to look, on body shape, etc. And also manipulated enormously by the boys and men in their lives to perform sex acts, etc. Not all of course, just like not all Muslim women are manipulated by their men. The apparent freedom of our young women, and women in general from some sections of our communities, can be very shallow indeed. You don't hear of many Muslim women suffering from anorexia, for instance. Some girls in the UK become anorexic from the age of 5, as they feel that pressure to conform to 'magazine/celeb' beauty and shape.

Thanks bags for a fabulous and informing link to the Taureq,I have read about them some time ago but have never come across the site before as I've said before there is so so much to be gained from being on this site with all manner of interesting information available. thanks again.

I was hoping for a pic of bags in her net hat thing. Hey ho. I'll just have to join the dots.

JessM I wholly endorse what you have said. Some Muslim women wear a veil or cover themselves completely; many do not. Some Muslim women are highly educated – in this country or elsewhere – while some are not but many are struggling to be so. We should be careful about generalisations.

I too have lived, and worked, in Saudi Arabia, very recently.

In Riyadh, ALL women, including Westerners, are expected to wear an abaya when out in public. Westerners don't wear the niqab (face covering) but do carry a headscarf in case they end up in a situation were they feel the need to cover their hair. In the six months I was there I never wore a headscarf.

As for the UK, I don't like to see women in niqabs but it's not something to legislate against, but what I do strongly object to is seeing 4-year girls in a headscarf.

Even in Riyadh, which is the most conservative part of Saudi Arabia, girls don't cover until they reach their teens. You see young girls in jeans, t-shirts, pink trainers, glittery hair slides, etc.

Many, many Moslem women already don't choose to wear veils, or even headscarves. Some do. Some Tuareg men veil their faces. Some don't. I mentioned them because someone stated that Moslem men don't cover their faces. Some do. The way Benazir Bhutto dressed was traditional for the Punjab - no veiled faces but a scarf or dupatta that could be used to cover the head and shadow the face if it was thought necessary. Lots of women in this country dress like that.

While I consider myself a leftish wing, liberal-minded person ( as confirmed by the recent poll) I would set the skin police on overweight men who insist on going topless in the street, shops, cafés etc on the rare occasions we have a heat wave.
Yuk.
Enough to put you off your shopping, food, stride.

Agree, Especially if their bosoms are bigger than mine

You're just jealous petallus

Damn! You guessed Jodi

Oh Yukk - manboobs! You see them all the time here. It all reminds me of when we moved to New Zealand - in a sub tropical heatwave. I was wearing a short skirt on my way to work, and a man in shorts sat next to me on the bus. He was fat and smelly and his sweaty hairy legs were squashed up against mine. I was utterly horrified, and realised that my discomfort in the past on the buses in Yorkshire, surrounded by the pong of wet wool and beer breath, was nothing in comparison!!

Men in thongs (Peter Stringfellow?) - yuk!

I've never actually seen a man in a thong greatnan so I'll bow to your greater experience

Greatnan Peter Stringfellow would still stimulate my vomit reflex if he was inside a canvas bag.

joan . On Australian beaches the men, even middle aged, wear very skimpy affairs don't they. The up side of this is that the majority (at least in NSW) seem to be v fit.

Italy too. Men on Italian beaches - not always a pretty sight. Some looking like Berlusconi - or worse, just imagine ......

Reading back there seems to be a general consensus that most of us think everybody , male and female, looks best covered in flowing robes obscuring the wobbly bits (and looking more alluring), heads covered or uncovered according to choice, but with faces uncovered (for purposes of communication and practicality such as smiling, eating etc).

Shorts are not allowed on men in French public swimming pools - it has to be Speedo-types. Not good on all men! As for seeing thongs - I spend quite a bit of time on tropical beaches,so they are unavoidable.
Kaftans in light materials are cool and comfortable and fulfil most modesty requirements.

Kaftans are great. Love them.

Nfk I don't think we have really discussed what people look best in, especially what men look best in. Have I missed something? I can't see Mr absent, who is a tin ribs with no wobbly bits of fat, in flowing robes – especially up and down ladders hanging wallpaper at the moment.

All the men I know wear board shorts in Australia, it's not the thing to wear speedos. Though the Opposition leader, Tony Abbot has been known to wear speedos, then they are called budgie smugglers.

No, nobody has said much about what people look best in. Just what's awful. I was just trying to put a more positive slant. Positive comments have been made of wonderful saris and ladies in African robes etc and negative on excess's of flesh.
Lucky you to have a ribby bloke. I'm not sure Mr Nfk has ribs. I can see what you mean about flowing robes up ladders, perhaps I should have added trousers!

Sorry, my last post was for Mrs Absent - but flowing robes wouldn't work on a surf board either!

I used to wear cotton Kaftans when I first came to Oz. I think loose flowing clothes are much cooler, in both senses of the word, than tight revealing clothes. These days when I'm out I wear linen-type trousers and cotton tee shirts or loose blouses. I know I am more comfortable than young women in tight short skirts and crop tops, with their midriffs bulging out like doughnuts. At home I wear shorts, but never when I'm out